Wednesday 2 March 2011

Clinton: We'll investigate Gadhafi over Pan Am 103

[This is the headline over a report published today on the MSNBC website. It reads in part:]

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that the Obama administration may seek the prosecution of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.

Responding to a question by Congresswoman Ann Marie Buerkle, R-NY, about what the US is doing to build a case against Gadhafi, Clinton said that former Gadhafi officials have made statements in the past few days that he was behind the terrorist attack and that the U.S. would "move expeditiously." (...)

Clinton said that she would be in touch with FBI Director Robert Mueller and Attorney General Eric Holder on Tuesday about how to move on this case. (...)

If there is evidence that he was behind the attack, Clinton said, that would be one of the many counts against Gadhafi in the international criminal court "if he is ever captured alive for justice proceedings."

Clinton said it was a matter of personal importance for her given that she used to represent the Syracuse area. Thirty-five students from Syracuse University were aboard the flight, coming home from overseas study.

Over the weekend, the former Libyan justice minister was quoted as saying the man convicted of the bombing had blackmailed Gadhafi into securing his release by threatening to expose his role in the attack.

The Sunday Times newspaper quoted Mustafa Abdel-Jalil as saying that Abdel Baset al-Megrahi had warned Gadhafi that he would "reveal everything" about the bombing if he wasn't rescued from a Scottish prison.

Abdel-Jalil told a Swedish tabloid last week that he had proof Gadhafi had personally ordered the Lockerbie bombing. He did not describe the proof.

Al-Megrahi was the only man convicted for the attack, which killed 270 people. He was released in 2009 on compassionate grounds after being diagnosed with prostate cancer. He remains alive.

[Any genuine investigation into the role (if any) played by Gaddafi in the Lockerbie bombing would be most welcome, as Dr Jim Swire says in this report on the Channel 4 News website. A genuine investigation would inevitably discover that the version of events accepted by the Scottish Court at Camp Zeist was fallacious. This, of course, is precisely the reason why no such investigation can realistically be anticipated.]


  1. "Meanwhile, Scottish ministers are claiming that there are "too many unresolved issues" surrounding the conviction of Megrahi."
    A little surge of excitement there until it became clear that they`ve thought that Christine Graham is a Scottish Minister

  2. Clinton: "if he (Gadhafi) is ever captured alive" A cynic might think Gadhafi's death would be a panacea for the US on this issue.....

  3. Yes, obviously the last thing the US and UK governments want out in the open is the circumstances surrounding the release of Megrahi.

  4. I think Clinton has "mispoken" again. The ICC and Lockerbie..? How would that be possible?

  5. That's not the only incongruity, Tim.
    Last I heard, the US wasn't even a member of the ICC.

  6. This is so surreal it's like a picture by Escher.

    Clinton and all the rest of them are people who have always espoused the view that Megrahi did it. No doubts, no question. So if Megrahi did it, guys, in what way, exactly, did Gadaffi NOT order the bombing?

    What is this? Some new theory you've always had but just didn't bother telling us about, that Megrahi woke up one morning and just decided to bomb a US airliner, all his own idea? Why? Er, to take revenge for the death of Gadaffi's daughter in the US bombing raid. But Gadaffi didn't know anything about it, and if he had known, he'd have said, oh no Abdelbaset, we mustn't do that, that would be WRONG!

    And THIS was why you were all so damn keen to glad-hand that bastard Gadaffi, because you really thought he was sweetness and light, and all the Libyan atrcities we know about (and we know about quite a few they really did commit) were done without his knowledge?

    And now it's a terrible shock to have someone claim that this nice man Muammar might actually have been the one who ordered his agents to do whatever they did?

    Like that wasn't, you know, OBVIOUS, right from the start?

  7. MISSION LOCKERBIE, 2011, doc. nr.1070.rtf.
    The 'Kaleidoscope of Lockerbie' :
    Libya rebels appoint disloyal ex-justice minister Mustafa Abdel Jalil, as council chair...

    Sweden news paper "Expressen" spokeswoman Alexandra Forslund said to me, its reporter in Libya, Kassem Hamade, taped the interview, which was conducted in Arabic and translated to Swedish.
    Interesting that Libya's former justice minister Mustafa Abdel-Jalil the Swedish daily paper "EXPRESSEN" on 23rd February 2011 has been an instant interview by accusing, Colonel Gaddafi ordered the "Lockerbie bombing" on 1988. He did not describe the proof.
    After 8 days, "(CONSTRUCTION ?)" following new evidence, were in the english Newspaper EXPRESS (Home of the Daily and Sunday Express in UK) presents:

    THE FULL dubiouse details of how Colonel Gaddafi colluded with the Lockerbie bomber to blow up Pan Am Flight 103 can be revealed by the UK Sunday Express.

    - Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi threatened to confess and expose
    Gaddafi unless Tripoli found a way to get him home to his family.

    - The Libyan dictator ordered the execution of other agents involved to cover up the Lockerbie trail.

    - Details of how the bomb was made in Lebanon and smuggled through
    the Congo.

    - Gaddafi personally sanctioned Palestinian mercenary Abu Nidal to assist the attack.

    The new allegations have come from former terror general Atef Abu Bakr who has broken his silence with Gaddafi. His confession could finally end the doubts surrounding Megrahi’s conviction and even see further charges brought in Scotland against a host of co-conspirators.
    The group, called the Abu Nidal Organisation (ABO), had a headquarters in Tripoli until 1999, shortly before Megrahi was handed over to the British authorities.

    Nidal was shot dead in Iraq in 2003 and Bakr said he had decided to speak out because be believed Gaddafi was now powerless to punish him.
    He revealed the attack on a US passenger jet was ordered in retaliation for the 1986 US bombing of Benghazi and Tripoli, in which Gaddafi’s daughter was killed. The bomb was built by the ABO’s “scientific committee in the south of Mount Lebanon”.

    continued below >>>

  8. continued part 2, MISSION LOCKERBIE >>>

    Bakr said: “I can assure you categorically that the two processes [making the bomb and destroying the plane] were the outcome of a partnership between the Abu Nidal group and the security of the Libyan Jamahiriya.
    “The committee, which was run by a Palestinian, prepared explosive radios of around three or four inches in thickness and put a rule of Semtex of less than 400 grams in the vacuum in the speakers and under the metal plate.
    “Then they put the explosive in the form of a gift and sent them to Tripoli, with timers. As always in such cases, the gift carrier did not known the nature of the gift.”

    Bakr, who did not explain his own role in the operation, said the “gifts” were smuggled into Libya via Brazzaville, the Congolese capital, and the couriers were later murdered by Gaddafi and Nidal.
    He said: “Two of the group were met by members of Libyan intelligence and under the cover of the son of leader Patrice Lumumba. The killing of the two people who belonged to the group took place later, the first in Beirut and the second in Libya.” Lumumba, a Congolese prime minister murdered in a coup in 1961, has four sons: Francois, now leader of his father’s party, as well as Patrice Jr, Roland and Guy-Patrice.

    The bomb was then taken from Tripoli to Malta, which fits with the case built by Scottish police and proved by the Crown during Megrahi’s trial.
    Bakr said: “The Lockerbie explosive came from Tripoli to Malta and was then shipped from Malta. I want to emphasise that the shipment came from Malta.
    “There were members of the group visiting Malta, sometimes using Libyan passports and cards for the Libyan Aviation Office in Malta to be able to access and to facilitate shipping.
    “The Abu Nidal group has subsequently liquidated a number of elements who have played a role in this process, including an official in the intelligence community. For their part, the Libyans had to liquidate a number of elements, including a former official in the intelligence.”

    by Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd. Switzerland. URL:

  9. Thanks Rolfe

    Saved me a post, and your prose is less impenetrable than mine; I agree 100%. How no one has ever taken them to task for the bizarre compartmentalization of al-Megrahi and the Libyan government is a wonder to me.

    It does tell us that Hilary Clinton believes the average US citizen to be thick as shit, though...

  10. Rolfe: When did you discover Gaddafi is a bastard and his agents cannot be independent of him? Was that before or after you joined hands with the Jamahiriya Student Union leader in a partnership for justice? Did your epiphany take place before or after your Justice for Megrahi standard bearer Jim Swire slogged his way to Tripoli to pin a badge of honor on the chest of the King of Kings? And how could you justify your organization's failure to disavow the record of its affiliates?

    Libyan saying: "A camel does not see the crookedness of its own neck." It comes from the age before mirrors and blogs.

  11. Hillary Clinton: "if he [Gaddafi] is ever captured alive for justice proceedings."

    How does David Cameron feel about Colonel Gaddafi being hauled before the ICC, I wonder?

  12. Sorry, I have no clue what Suliman is on about.

  13. MISSION LOCKERBIE, 2011, doc. nr.1071.rtf:
    Open letter from neutral Switzerland Switzerland
    to the Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton

    Vision: Did colonel Muammar Gaddafi order the "PanAm-103 bombing" over Lockerbie ?
    Facts and current status (2011) in the 'Lockerbie Affair' (PanAm-103 attack), according to the latest investigation results of MEBO:

    1.) According to the “Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission” (SCCRC), the Libyan official Mr. Abdelbaset Al Megrahi, who was found guilty and sentenced by a Scottish court in 2001, has fallen victim to a “miscarriage of justice” in 6 points; Al Megrahi is innocent!

    2.) As a result of MEBO's confidential, reliable background information, Al Megrahi can absolutely be ruled out as the “Pan Am Bomber”, since he was thrust into this position through an intelligence service mishap;

    3.) Crucial evidence was demonstrably manipulated or falsified (scientific forensic evidence) by “Scottish officials” for the prosecution in the evidentiary proceedings at the court in Kamp van Zeist (2000-2001);

    4.) The "crucial evidence" (PT/35), the fingernail-size fragment of a MEBO MST-13 timer, the only evidence which connects Libya with the “Lockerbie tragedy”, was manipulated and did not stem from a functional MST-13 timer. (Affidavit (official certification) of 18th July 2007 from Eng. Ulrich Lumpert and new forensic evidence);

    5.) Chief witness statements by “shopkeepers” Tony and Paul Gauci in Malta were influenced through monetary payments to the disadvantage of Mr. Al Megrahi;

    6.) The transport and subsequent transfer of a “bomb bag” by Air Malta with flight KM-180 (Malta-Frankfurt) to Pan AM flight 103/b must be ruled out today due to exculpatory facts;

    7.) Consequently, the verdict in the Lockerbie case must be demonstrably classified as a “miscarriage of justice” today (2011), i.e. Abdelbaset Al Megrahi and the Libyan state cannot be held responsible for the “Pan AM 103 tragedy”. Justice for Megrahi and an apology to the Libyan people...

    8.) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has not answered (or proven) whether a new rumour is true, that in 1988 Colonel Gaddafi had ordered someone (whom?) to “blow up” a US airplane as *revenge for the 1986 US bombing of his military camp in Tripoli???

    *The conspiracy of 1986, against the leader of Libya, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi (US air strike of Libya, code-named Operation El Dorado Canyon).
    In 1986, Colonel Gaddafi rushed out of their residence in the Bab al Aziziya compound moments before the bombs dropped. Colonel Gaddafi escaped the assassination. The air strike killed 45 Libyan soldiers and government officials, and 15 civilians. Colonel Gaddafi escaped injury but his 15-month-old adopted daughter Hanna was killed, and two of his sons were injured...

    Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton please ask the Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond, for the opening of the 'SCCRC' documents and (PII), then you know that the investigation must take place at the Scottish officials !
    And please do not forget the words from ex FBI Task Force chief Richard Marquise, cordinator between FBI and CIA in the "Lockerbie-Affair": If someone manipulated evidence, if somebody didn't invesitgate something that should have been investigated, if somebody twisted it to fit up up Megrahi, or Fimah or Libya, then that person will go to jail. I mean that sincerely, that person should be prosecuted for that!

    Please watch now the full documentary film "Lockerbie revisited" by Regisseur Gideon Levy, shown to Scottish members of Parliament about important facts concerning the conspiracy against Libya.

    by Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd. Switzerland. URL:

  14. Rolfe: As the Deputy Secretary of the Justice for Megrahi Campaign, you have no clue that your campaign was co-founded by Abdullah Swissy, a leader in the Great Jamahiriya Student Union? Hard to believe.

    You do not accept that an agent like Megrahi could be working independently of Gaddafi, but you have no clue when it comes to the degree of independence of other sworn soldiers of the Great al-Fatih Revolution? Hard to accept.

    And you have no clue that Jim Swire, according to his quoted statements on this blog, honored Gaddafi by pinning a badge on his chest? Well, let me give you a clue on this last one. You might remember when, following the Western mercenary tradition of emphasizing Gaddafi's silk pajamas and camels, Swire was reminiscing about Gaddafi's other all-important possession, the female bodyguards. Now, that must ring a bell for you!

    Do you need any clues about the "judicial" principles and record of your JFM partners, the Jamahiriya Student Union? Are those agents of Gaddafi exempt from the logic that Gaddafi's agents cannot operate independently?

    If Megrahi bombed the plane, he could not have done it independently of Gaddafi. That's what you're telling Clinton. But when a Scotland-based Gaddafi agent co-founds a campaign for Megrahi, you are clueless about how independent of Gaddafi such an operation can be. I have heard of selective amnesia, but I did not know that cluelessness, too, can be selective in Scottish 'civil' society.

  15. Yes, Patrick, non membership did not stop the US voting for (not abstaining, voting!!) resolution UNSC 1970, hilarious. They are comfortable relying on an institution which they reject, on principle, dispensing justice, because it suits politically.

  16. "move expeditiously"

    Does that mean the US are going to pay for testimony again? How many millions this time?

  17. No amnesia here Suliman. The case against the conviction of Megrahi stands as far as I'm concerned. Not based on what Clinton says, or Cameron but on the findings of the SCCRC, here in Scotland, which suggest six grounds to suggest a miscarriage of justice occurred at the original trial. Nothing I have heard since recent events in Libya began has altered that case one iota.

  18. Just reported on BBC News: my former FCO colleague Sir Howard Davies has resigned as Director of the London School of Economics because he accepted a big donation to the LSE by Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi. The donation might eventually have to be returned to Libya.

    Didn't Saif also arrange the payment of the $2.7bn compensation to the Lockerbie relatives? They're not expected to return the money, are they?

  19. I am no lover of Ghaddafi but I am concerned about this story which is coming out about a recent massacre in Libya. There is no doubt a massacre took place and it seems that they were Libya soldiers or at least pro Ghaddafi combatants. Their bodies can be seen with hands tied behind their backs, blind-folded and shot through the head.
    One piece of footage, which is on the site which Suliman linked, presumably a pro rebel site and shows a dying "survivor" of the massacre. Oddly he is not bound,wears no blindfold and appears to have no headwound. His "rescuers" do not seem too concerned about his welfare and eventually trickle water into his mouth. It is on this link....
    However there is another link on youtube of the same scene, using another camera that seems to show a gap where the man lay
    ~17 seconds in.
    Frankly I suspect that the first footage is faked and that those who made the film were responsible for the executions.
    I may be wrong but "the first casualty...." and all that.
    Warning - it is pretty gruesome.

  20. But when a Scotland-based Gaddafi agent co-founds a campaign for Megrahi, you are clueless about how independent of Gaddafi such an operation can be. I have heard of selective amnesia, but I did not know that cluelessness, too, can be selective in Scottish 'civil' society.

    "Planting a bomb on a plane" and "co-founding a small organisation" aren't as analogous as you seem to think they are. Moreover, I don't see how the Jamahiriya "Students Union" can be so tightly aligned with its Mukhabarat (though I know hardly anything of either so I'm willing to be corrected).

    Regardless, if JFM is connected to the Libyan state it should disassociate itself from it as fast as a teetotal virgin from Charlie Sheen.

    Whether they are or not and whether they do or not, however, doesn't change the fact that the prosecution of Al Megrahi was blatantly unsound. Why, even Abdel-Jalil - whose word I'm quite sceptical of - doesn't seem to think he was the bomber.

  21. Dear Commentators,

    I have no intention of repeating this statement or indulging in any form of debate on the subject.

    For the record, JFM does not, nor has it ever, received any monies from the Libyan government, either directly or indirectly. Equally, JFM does not, nor has it ever, supported intellectually, philosophically or politically the Libyan government, either directly or indirectly. JFM concerns itself, as it always has done, with concerns over the conviction of Mr al-Megrahi and the implications that the Zeist judgement has for the Scottish criminal justice system. The time, effort and costs involved in running this campaign have been borne entirely by the members of JFM. These are the facts.

    Yours sincerely,
    Robert Forrester (Sec, JFM).

  22. This comment has been removed by the author.

  23. The reference Suliman made recently to the prospective war criminal Tony Blair conjured up memories of a few other notable representatives of sincerity and integrity in the Colonel's boudoir: Senator McCain and US Secretary of State Rice.

    I do wonder how much John and Condoleezza received as compensation and reward for their weapons and oil deals struck with Gaddafi?

    Well the nearly $3bn that the US extorted from the Libyan people for Lockerbie 'guilt' and the decade of illegal sanctions inflicted brought about through a false accusation clearly wasn't enough.

    Perhaps the badges exchanged during that particular cosy Libyan/US audience simply stated 'Blood, Lies and Money'.

    Well, US senators, it's administration and a host of US multinational companies siding with terror despots and genocidal regimes is hardly something new is it. Senator McCain went on to praise Muammar for "his efforts to sustain peace and stability in Africa", while Muammar later lured "Rice in an incense-perfumed room". Ooh-er, I think I'll leave it there.

    Oh this is a good game. Gaddafi bingo I call it, and I claim "House"!

  24. Paul Wolfowitz, former US Undersecretary of Defense under Donald Rumsfield as Secretary of Defense for George W. Bush, and previously under Dick Cheney as Secretary of Defense for George HRW Bush clearly went on the record this past weekend saying that, at least in his view, the main reason the USA re-opened its diplomatic relations with Libya in the early 2000 years was extreme political pressure from the American victims of Pan Am 103 driven by their desire to collect some 2.7 billion from Libya as compensation for Pan Am 103.

    The interviews are on You Tube I believe.

    Eddie you need to add a few bingo balls to your game (perhaps under the G for Gadaffi, or under the O for oh-oh, or how about under the B for Billions or N for No shame?) to your bingo game with the American victim's lobby group's names on them.

  25. Ow. Better not say that to Bunntamas, she'll go ballistic.

  26. Three references to Gaddafi this evening on the BBC Now Show - best being Gadaffi explaining to his people how much better he has made the country, "Our hospitals are so much better than in the West...we take a man from Scotland with only three months to live and eighteen months later, he's still alive."

  27. He's got a point or Megrahi's scans were amended by MI6.


    Vinnie Cannistraro is back saying Scottish doctors were bribed.

    American lawyers smell more billions.

    American and British investigators have never closed the investigation and now want to re-open it.

    Blah blah blah

  29. 'Bribing most of the Scottish doctors.' I disagree.

    Blood samples can quite easily be swapped by the intelligence services. Manipulation of the scaning process at the hospital would've been trickier but possible. I don't know how many if any of the consultants actually examined Megrahi. If not, what were their diagnoses based on, blood samples and scans? I don't believe any of the experts were asked to give their opinions on Megrahi's life expectancy. So was the final link in the chain left to the prison doctor who had no specialist cancer knowledge and hence cannot be held responsible?

  30. Ruth FYI: IRH use PAS for patient administration, like appointments, chart transactions, etc, and COIS for clinical management. COIS is the system where the biochemistry results like PSA, haematology, biopsy results and physical examination results and consultant notes are collated, electronically. Presumably, any electronic system is open to abuse remotely given the sophistication of the agencies who were interested in this case. However, the hospital also have a physical chart which accompanies the patient to appointments - they hold the identical paper copies of all the tests and notes - including treatment related notes. It would make it harder, but not impossible, to tamper with the hardcopy patient chart.
    Btw - even just gleaning the PAS appointments (not the chart) would answer a lot of questions about treatment, or not, in this case, since each time the chart moves out of the medical records office to a clinic, or to a consultants' secretary to have the audio transcribed, the transaction is logged in PAS. Some locals know what's in there :)

  31. Blogistan,
    Why do the electronic or the physical records have to be changed? Surely, blood samples can be swapped on the way to the lab. It would be more difficult with the scans but I'd have little doubt our intelligence services would have been up to the job.

  32. MISSION LOCKERBIE, 2011, doc. nr.1073.rtf., google translation german/english:

    Reproach to: the Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and U.S. Senators:
    As long as the 'Scottish Parliament' the 800 discharge documents of the Scottish Criminal Cases Reappeal Commission (SCCRC) predict in 6 points, a "Miscarriage of Justice", and the document under National Security (PII) keep secret and will not open, --- the Libyan official Abdelbaset Al Megrahi, Libya, and recently Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, should not be linked in conection with the Lockerbie tragedy ! The focus is clearly over the 'Scottish Government'.
    Interesting question, why are the families of victims PANAM 103 completely uninterested in this decisive matter ?
    Are they afraid befor the TRUTH or from SOMETHING others (e.g. before the possible repayment of the US$ 2.7 billions) ? ...

    Vorhaltung an: Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton und an die US Senatoren:
    Solange das 'Scottish Parliament' die 800 Entlastungs-Dokumente der Scottish Criminal Cases Reappeal Commission (SCCRC) welche in 6 Punkten ein "Miscarriage of Justice" prognostizieren; und das Dokument unter National Security (PII) geheim halten, bezugsweise nicht geöffnet werden, --- sollte der Libysche Offizielle Abdelbaset Al Megrahi, Libyen und neuerdings Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, mit der Lockerbie-Tragödie nicht in Verbindung gebracht werden ! Der Fokus liegt eindeutig über dem 'Scottish Government'.
    Interessante Frage, wieso sind die Familien der PanAm 103 Opfer an dieser massgebenden Angelegenheit / Aufklärung völlig desinteressiert ?
    Fürchten sie sich vor der Wahrheit oder vor etwas anderem (z.B. der möglichen Rückzahlung der US$ 2.7 milliarden ?)...

    by Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland. URL:

  33. "move expeditiously," she says they will. That seems to be a meme lately. We get these skewed reports of the scale of the war, defectors, airborne and not, giving us the scale and horror of the crackdown. New sanctions, a flurry of new punishments rattled off at breakneck speed, Obama demands Gaddafi's resignation and surrender to the rebellion. Overt outside force is asked for by some, and declined by others. U.S. forces repositioning, no-fly zone discussed (that means shooting down anyone who flies, doesn't it?). Obama feels "pressured" to intervene swiftly, perhaps before our view of the situation can clarify.

    Is this a media blitzkrieg psy-op coup by chance?

    Clearly there will be no investigation as Mrs. Clinton threatens. But Washington goes by short-term strategy and what helps with the immediate goal. I suspect the point of this is to show how seriously they take new leader (?) Abdel-Jalil's accusation, and nothing more, aside from more tough talk.

    Suli! Still no show.

  34. I'd have little doubt our intelligence services would have been up to the job.
    I think you give them too much credit for being competent - take the recent disruptive events in the Middle East organised on Facebook (!) and email (!) and Twitter (!), 80 000 in Fort Meade and 9 000 in Cheltenham with all their sophisticated listening and analysis systems, could not predict what was going to happen.

    Surely, blood samples can be swapped on the way to the lab.
    Specifically, on tapping blood tests: If you look at the typical cancer chart it contains much more information (by virtue of many test results) than the average patient chart during the diagnosis phase - it is not just a case of switching the occasional blood sample. If the episode also has a treatment phase (hormone, chemo etc) this also increases the test results exponentially because blood tests and biochemistry tests are frequent during this phase. Even during palliative care the health team do tests to monitor the progress of the disease. The tests are not just one laboratory either - Haematology, Biochemistry, Radiology (for MRI, CT scans etc) and Pathology (for biopsy diagnosis). In short, tens of people are involved in the care of the cancer patient - it is the most labour intensive condition treated by clinical staff due to the complexity and urgency of the disease. Also, in Inverclyde the Urology/Oncology is shared across IRH and RAH (Paisley) so even more people involved - and I believe he attended RAH too from HMP Gateside.
    It is not impossible, given the resources the intelligence people have, to tamper with this system, but the mere fact there are so many health care staff involved makes it unfeasible in my opinion.

  35. JFM's spokesman is free to declare his "preemptive retreat," but that does not exempt his statements
    from being scrutinized and refuted. I will address what he says above, sentence by
    sentence, but it is imperative to address his penultimate sentence first because it establishes the
    scale for weighing the others.

    The time, effort and costs involved in running this campaign have been borne entirely by the
    members of JFM.

    Forrester's statement says that JFM is not financially independent of its members. Therefore, any
    access to JFM's contributing members is an access to JFM itself, call it direct or
    indirect--who cares!

    For the record, JFM does not, nor has it ever, received any monies from the Libyan government,
    either directly or indirectly.

    That statement is false. At least three of the seven founders of JFM have had some sort of
    known financial connection with the Gaddafi regime: (1) Dr. Jim Swire's connection comes through the
    compensations--at least. Swire is effectively a prepaid lobbyist, in light of his advocacy of
    Megrahi's innocence and failure to return the money with interest. (2) Fr. Keegans, possibly injured
    (?) and surely suffered some property
    damages, was also covered by Libyan compensations for Lockerbie. He, too, advocates that
    Megrahi is innocent, and any money he kept past his conviction of the
    innocence, is tantamount to advance payment. (3) Abdullah Swissy, JFM's Libyan co-founder, was a
    government sponsored student. How in the hell could he be financially independent of his financial
    sponsors? You have to ask Forrester for that, but in my book, the claim that JFM was never in
    receipt of Libyan funds is ludicrous and false.

    Equally, JFM does not, nor has it ever, supported intellectually, philosophically or politically
    the Libyan government, either directly or indirectly.

    I am not sure exactly what "indirect philosophical support" might or might not be. For the JFM
    co-founder Abdullah Swissy, who is a leader in the Jamahiriya Student Union, support of the Gaddafi
    regime is a prerequisite. He was actively recruiting participants for JFM, particularly English
    speakers, as he specified in the Gaddafi-loyalist press, e.g. In that same
    website, Mr. Swissy can also be found calling on the "Sons of the Great Revolution," to join a
    campaign that he was organizing, prior to co-founding JFM, and which he said was done in
    coordination with Gaddafi's Consul General in Scotland. Mr. Swissy brought all of his connections,
    loyalties, and obligations to the Gaddafi regime with him when he hooked up with Forrester and the
    rest of the Scottish mercenaries, and he continued in the same direction thereafter.

    The JFM members also support the Gaddafi regime in other ways, not least of which is saying on its
    behalf what it could not afford to say itself. Consider the following chronology.

    [continued below]

  36. Sept. 2010: Swire goes to Libya, visits Megrahi and Gaddafi, but on his return, he tells the press only about visiting Megrahi. His visit to Gaddafi was not disclosed until after submitting the JFM petition to the Scottish government, and even then it was disclosed in an ambiguous, unattributed parenthetical insertion by Prof. Black, who buried it deep down in the bottom of a long post that quoted three different press items. Contrast that type of disclosure with Swire's profuse gas on his meeting with Megrahi in the same visit. Of course Swire and JFM were covering up their arrangements with Gaddafi just one month before submitting their petition. Nevertheless, it is encouraging to know that in Scotland there is still some perceived liability to collaborating with Gaddafi.

    8 October 2010: JFM submits a petition to the Scottish parliament after consultations with Gaddafi. The e-petition was open to the entire world to sign, including "Sons of the Great Revolution" who speak English. In fact, neither the personal identity, nor the uniqueness of the e-signatories could be verified. It is therefore conceivable that some signatories were indeed "sons of... bitches" who answered the call, and conceivable that each SOB signed the petition multiple times. The petition was indeed open for manipulations by foreigners, including Gaddafi's operatives on and off the JFM roster.

    2 Dec. 2010: Gaddafi holds a video-based Q&A session with students and faculty members of the LSE. [A video of that event has recently been leaked by LSE students, who call it a "love in" in reference to the relentless Gaddafi ass-kissing by LSE professors, including the Director of that mercenary outfit who recently resigned in shame and disgrace.] Gaddafi gassed on about all manner of things, including stating his view that Megrahi is innocent and the Lockerbie case was fabricated. But in regard to actions to be taken, not views expressed, Gaddafi's only statement was, "... even if he [Megrahi] dies, his family will demand prosecution of those in whose hands he was, who did not care for his health, did not bring him before a doctor regularly, and neglected him deliberately until he was stricken with cancer and until he was overwhelmed with cancer." [My translation is based on the Arabic text published on the website of the Gaddafi's broadcasting service.]

    4 Dec. 2010: JFM's Jim Swire, writing in the British press, spins Gaddafi's LSE statements as follows

    [continued below]

  37. The Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, has told students at the London School of Economics that, upon the death of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi, the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing, his country will sue the British Government for falsely imprisoning him.

    Note that Swire's statement is triply false: (1) Gaddafi said Megrahi's family, not his country, will demand prosecution; (2) he said the legal action would be brought against Megrahi's prisoners, which means the Scottish government not the British government at large, and (3) the legal action would be for prisoner neglect, not for false imprisonment.

    Swire continues with a paragraph that did not seem like much at the time, but in light of his recent confession, it has acquired quite a bit of brilliance:

    How strange that, if true, those who seek the truth over Lockerbie may find the colonel providing the pathway they need to have the legal case against Megrahi reviewed, following the withdrawal of Libya’s appeal.

    There it is folks: How strange, Swire said, for Gaddafi to be the one providing the path to the "Lockerbie TRUTH." What is not strange, however, is Swire's use of the very terms he had placed on the badge that he had pinned on Gaddafi's chest in Tripoli, when he was kissing his ass in the company of his armed concubines. And incidentally, the withdrawn appeal was Megrahi's not Libya's, and Swire knows that, too.

    There is no reasonable doubt now that Swire honored Gaddafi on that September visit, one month before submitting the JFM petition to the Scottish government. No doubt that Swire's delayed recounting of Gaddafi's "desire to have the verdict overturned" is based on the discussions they had just one month before and in relation to the Lockerbie-truth-seeking paths which include the JFM petition. And there is no doubt about the hypocritical machinations of JFM's Swire, who faked bewilderment in public about the possibility of receiving from Gaddafi what he had already honored him for in private. There is no doubt that Swire was 'more royal than the king,' by saying not what Gaddafi said, but what he left unsaid.

    [continued below]

  38. I said before that when the Lockerbie deal was cut, Gaddafi was promised he and his regime would not be pursued, but on the other side of the coin, he could not ever again touch the Lockerbie case. I said also that Gaddafi knew he would have to rely on native mules, surrogates and civil mercenaries to do his bidding. There you have one clearly documented example of Gaddafi shooting disjointed hair balls out of his ass, only to be spun and weaved into a fabric by the Swires of Scotland to pull over the public eyes. I see clear signs of coordination and orchestration between JFM and Gaddafi.

    JFM concerns itself, as it always has done, with concerns over the conviction of Mr al-Megrahi and the implications that the Zeist judgement has for the Scottish criminal justice system.

    That is not how JFM co-founder Abdullah Swissy represented the JFM in Gaddafi's press. Go look at his account of the press conference on the announcement of launching the JFM campaign, in which Swissy was present as one of the organizers. At the time, JFM was saying to the UK public their sole issue was the compassionate release of Megrahi. But Swissy made sure to credit Swire, Forrester and Keegans with statements about their full and undivided dedication to Megrahi's innocence. Forrester, on the other hand, now says JFM is only about opening an inquiry not about demonstrating any preconceived notions of guilt or innocence. The JFM statements are made to suit the intended audience even when that requires them to be self contradictory. Mercenaries have no moral obligations.

    These are the facts.

    Those are not facts, they are falsehoods. The real facts are: JFM was founded in collaboration with Gaddafi's agents, it is organically linked to Gaddafi's operatives, it is a financial beneficiary of the Gaddafi regime, and their petitioning of the Scottish government was not done until after they consulted with Gaddafi. JFM's Swirer honored Gaddafi for being "a Lockerbie truth seeker," and JFM hid that despicable act even as they were spreading completely false fabrications toward advancing their common interests in the public eye.

  39. Eddie:

    Gaddafi's civil mercenaries in the US are probably too many to count. The list includes distinguished professors from various universities, and many former government officials. Tom Ridge, the very 1st Sec. of Homeland Security, was the ribbon-cutting VIP at a "security" PowWow in Tripoli, representing his company of course. Just your basic private citizen looking to make a buck. "Security" is what mercenaries call state terrorism when it is directed at domestic targets. I wonder how much Ridge's company contributed to enabling Gaddafi's current "security" campaign. The list also includes people like Richard Perle, who was Reagan's assistant Sec. of Defense, which is quite relevant, and he served in the Bush crusade for security, alongside Woflowitz himself.

    The following link leads to some information on registered agents of Gaddafi's regime in the US. After it loads up, scroll to the bottom to see how much was paid to whom.

  40. I will leave those whom you slander to answer your points.
    Maybe I can ask about you. I have to confess I was a bit suspicious of you when I read your promise to "deal with" Gaddafi whores and mercenaries like Black and Swire about a week ago.This kind of vainglorious posturing is sadly reminiscent of the religious fanatics who have become a new curse on North Africa and the Middle East in the last few years. Are you one of them?
    Maybe you can tell us about the kind of Libya you envisage post Gaddafi.
    I followed one of your links below and came up with this
    I assume that it is meant to show your allies in Libya "discovering" some of Gaddafi`s troops who were supposedly murdered by their comrades for refusing to fire on anti-government demonstrators.As you will know, the internet is full of reports exposing this as a sham. The victims were, in fact, murdered by anti Gaddafi fighters who then had one of their number lie down amongst the bodies as if he was a "survivor". The fact that he isn`t blindfolded, his hands aren`t tied and his wouldbe murderers seem to have missed with the fatal point-blank headshot made me suspicious in the first place and a further link from your recommended website led me to this
    which gives us another insight into the type of people who are fighting to "free" Libya from Gaddafi.
    Do you associate yourself with these butchers, Suliman?
    I think we should be told.

  41. Suliman, I totally accept your right to express a view but having read some of the things you have said in your earlier posts I believe you have crossed a line. You have libelled recklessly, insulted, offended and .....let yourself down ultimately.

  42. Dear Suliman,

    As I indicated in my earlier statement, I have no intention of indulging in any form of repartee on its contents. I do feel, however, that I ought to point out that there is nothing pre-emptive whatsoever about the fact that I made the statement when I did since it was in direct response to a suggestion contained in Bensix's post immediately preceding it.

    Yours sincerely,
    overt Forrester.

  43. Caustic Logic: I have no objection to debating you, but doing it on your blog would not provide much of an equal opportunity, particularly in view of your tendency to delete contents, substitute new stuff for old nonsense, as I have pointed out here before.

    Grendal: That is lame, even for the average resident of Crankville. What you might hold me responsible for next, I can't even imagine. Next time, try to hold me for things I actually say.

    As for Gaddafi's whores inside and outside Libya, yes, absolutely, we will deal with them. Some are being dealt with right now. And whoever feels the shoe fits, should join the side of their choosing. Go ahead and let your creativity go wild with that.

    Mr. Forrester: Everything you put in an open forum is open. Your continuing to say that you will say nothing, to me, does not mean much. You made your points, I countered them with mine. The debate is out of your control.

  44. Suliman, I know nothing about you or your views. You only tell us what you are against. I asked you a simple question and you avoided answering it. Some might say that this speak volumes but I will give you another chance to answer. Remember, you sent me to the site where the footage comes from. Are you a supporter of those who carried out those "executions"?
    You will notice I don`t ask you if you are their whore or their mercenary but as you are so free with your condemnation of others it is only fitting that you speak up for your own beliefs.

  45. Commentators are not always as they appear. I rememeber Lord Fraser tried to smear Dr Swire. Surely smearing is one of the tactics used by the governments and its lackeys.

  46. Blogistan, surely this is a little simplistic:
    'I think you give them too much credit for being competent - take the recent disruptive events in the Middle East organised on Facebook (!) and email (!) and Twitter (!), 80 000 in Fort Meade and 9 000 in Cheltenham with all their sophisticated listening and analysis systems, could not predict what was going to happen.'

    How do you know the intelligence services didn't know what was going to happen?
    Take Libya for example. Are you sure the UK and US were unaware of the prepared events?

  47. How do you know the intelligence services didn't know what was going to happen?
    Coz the government were visibly taken by surprise, and said so, and all their 'assets' (military ones, for example, needed to evacuate people) were not nearby, either.
    However, suspecting the invisible hand of the state in everything, by never accepting anything at face value, is pointless. Eventually, you have to make a judgement based on how infeasible or improbable a conspiracy would be to execute.


    Lockerbie Trial Document: Susan Lindauer Deposition. Susan Lindauer, was former U.S. Asset covering Iraq and Libya
    This deposition pertains to my direct and immediate knowledge of an American named Dr. Richard Fuisz, and unequivocal statements by Dr. Fuisz directly to me that he has first hand knowledge about the Lockerbie case. Dr. Fuisz has told me that he can identify who orchestrated and executed the bombing.
    Dr. Fuisz has said that he can confirm absolutely that no Libyan national was involved in planning or executing the bombing of Pan Am 103, either in any technical or advisory capacity whatsoever. He has also made direct statements to me describing harassment that he has suffered for trying to provide this information to the families of Pan Am 103 and prosecuting authorities in the United States government. Please visit URL:

    Thank you Susan, they speak the truth.
    by Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland. URL:

  49. Perhaps people automatically can no longer take seriously anything governments in the UK say because, on so many issues, they have been publicly exposed as liars.

  50. So Blogistan you believe the government because they said so.

  51. Ruth: In this case, yes. There was plenty that was self-evident which supports their comments (e.g. the oil price did not increase until the revolt was underway).
    Now, they are playing catch-up and that is also self-evident.
    Btw - How do I know you are not in the intelligence services? :)
    I find unsupported doubts and unfounded suspicions can be destructive to my objectivity.

  52. And Mr Fox was looking very uncomfortable on the Andrew Marr Show this morning when it was revealed that SAS personnel have been held in Libya. Emerging background is suggesting they were there trying to establish links between the UK and the rebels. All very objective indeed.

  53. David Cameron sent the six-man SAS squad to Libya to execute Colonel Gaddafi, thus avoiding the inconvenience and embarrassment of putting Gaddafi on trial for a crime (Lockerbie) that Libya did not commit.

  54. I always forget Pancake Tuesday falls after Conspiracy Sunday :)

  55. British Diplomatic Mission to East Libya pwned!

    I always wondered what the diplomatic language was really like behind the scenes in a real crisis, as opposed to the odd daft ambassador or diplomat commenting on TV after some event, and then only saying the bleeding obvious, with a smug accent right out of the 1940s.
    Tonight, the telephone conversation between the withdrawn British ambassador to Libya and a translator working for rebel ex-Justice Minister Mustafa Abdel Jalil was intercepted by Gaddafi's intelligence people and played on Libyan television.
    In the conversation resembling the Yellow Pages JR Hartley fly fishing advert from the 80's, the ambassador bumbled sychophantically.
    Ambassador: "You see, I'm sure I can explain the reason our people were there to Mr Jalil (no you can't), they are part of a mission (aye, the SAS) to check on how much aid etc needed to help people (lie)...and they were just looking for hotels before the mission arrives. (excuse thought up by ten year old?)"
    Arab reply (at other end of line):
    "They shouldn't have arrived by helicopter in an open area. That is the problem" (obviously not a diplomat, since he stated a fact in one sentence)
    Ambassador: "Oh, a helicopter? (feigning surprise)"
    Arab: "Yes. Helicopter"
    Ambassador:"Oh, I see. I never knew how they arrived (so he's phoning to get them out the country but doesn't know how they arrived - does he think the rebels are gullible?) Oh, that will have caused a surprise..."

    And so he rambled on...'embarrassing that our government and civil service is populated by people from the British nineteenth century empire.

    Lets hope the rebels treat them better than they treated these guys.

  57. Well, according to newspaper reports they'd been in Libya four days presumably arriving on Wednesday. They were caught carrying ammunition, explosives, maps and false passports on Saturday. The arms depot at Rajmeh military base went off on Friday evening.

  58. Could have sworn I left a long comment last night and saw it there... Grendal - very interesting insights into how "whores and mercenaries" are treated in free Libya. Guest post at the Lockerbie Divide? (

    Suliman - if you're really concerned about the "covered-up" Libyan co-founder of JFM, keep an eye on my blog. I'm working on a platform for you to explain that or fail to, depending. Next couple days.

    If people are really running around "burning the evidence" of Swissy, what's up with JFM's main page? You caught me editing him out of a post, and great job. It was the quotes one, right? I removed all Libyans and their lawyers (and later expert witnesses) If you think I'm covering something up by that, I'd like to hear just what it is.

    Fair 'nuff?

  59. Blogiston said: I always forget Pancake Tuesday falls after Conspiracy Sunday.

    I predict that Pancake Day for Colonel Gaddafi will fall on Friday 11th March 2011 - thanks to PM David Cameron who wants him dead - and while the world's attention is focused on the Shia revolt in Saudi Arabia!

  60. The link I promised, under my other ID above

    Sorry, I know that's off topic from the more interesting off-topic lines interweaving here. But so far I don't see any evidence this particular student union is anywhere near as sinister as self-appointed expert Suliman paints it. Please do keep an eye out though for his explanation.

  61. Since I have no idea who Suliman is, and so cannot scrutinise every person he has ever associated with for political correctness, I'm not really interested in continuing this line of argument.

    Members of JFM are individuals, and not a collective. If Suliman has any beef with what Dr. Swire does, I would advise he takes that up with Dr. Swire directly, because JFM are not Dr. Swire's keepers.

    However, unitl he tells us exactly who he is and exactly which organisations he is a member of, so we can scrutinise all their past membership lists for people who might have done or said something we consider inappropriate, I'm not that interested.

  62. Grendal:

    After seeming to know who my "allies" were, and after pontificating on what sorts of things "my allies" do, and after the rest of that extraneous nonsense, now you conclude, "Suliman, I know nothing about you or your views" Very well, being at zero is progress for you. Please feel free to read some of my views, including those to which you have already replied.

  63. Rolfe says Gaddafi is a murderous bastard, and she is an official of JFM, which makes her a comrade-in-arms with the Jamahiriya Student Union. But to my request for a clarification of the principles and methods of Justice that unite her JFM with JSU, the highly educated scientist, had this to say: "Since I have no idea who Suliman is, [...] , I'm not really interested in continuing this line of argument." The line of argument, again, was not about me; it was for her to reconcile the judicial aspirations of JFM with the judicial record of its affiliate, the JSU. How addressing that point requires knowledge of me our anything about me, I just do not know. Then again, I have African roots, so I just might be missing some fine points about the civility exemplified by Rolfe and her colleagues.

    Rolfe continues, "Members of JFM are individuals, and not a collective. If Suliman has any beef with what Dr. Swire does, I would advise he takes that up with Dr. Swire directly, because JFM are not Dr. Swire's keepers."

    Bullshit! You can't have it both ways. Forrester says JFM is completely dependent on its committee, which has included Swire from day one. JFM is not Swire's keepers, they are his beneficiaries. He works on their behalf. Swire is also inseparable from the JFM petition of the Scottish government. His visit to Tripoli and belated disclosure on honoring Gaddafi are confirmed by his own statements, not my invention. I do not need anyone's permission to connect Swire's indefensible actions to JFM's stated objectives, agenda, coverups and manipulations.

    Isn't it remarkable that Rolfe, a JFM official, is so quick to dissociate JFM from Swire's actions, yet she remains completely silent about the association of JFM with the Jamahiriya Student Union? Amazing, in fact! I guess, even JFM staff have priorities when it comes to throwing their partners under the bus.

  64. Suliman, if your allies are torturing and murdering prisoners and blaming it on Gaddafi`s troops then it reflects very badly on you and I have no qualms about pointing it out. If you had any moral courage at all you would have commented specifically on the points I made.

  65. Suliman, I am trying to figure out how honest you are in presenting the JSU as a terrorist group, and using an imagined "pertnership" (really a brief one-person membership cross-over) to smear JFM as a group. The link is right there, as if you need it.

    Your own identification with cold-blooded murderers of Gaddafi's allies and apparent executors of false flag attacks aside, you've leveled some very serious charges against the JSU - a body that, as far as I can tell, is a student union whose shadiest activities include paying some to stand in pro-Gaddafi rallies, and at least as often denouncing the regime. Please, if you have the slightest bit of reason to smear this shit all over about murder and mob violence and "unrepented" support of the Gaddafi regime and "generating the goons" who shot Yvonne Fletcher, put it up or shut it up.

    Or keep focusing on one person's refusal to discuss it and pretend we all are. But that would be transparent deception and you know, everything you do is getting thinner and thinner. The double-checking that I'm doing is not going well for you, in your absence, you manipulative, slimy little punk.

    And your crap about financial support - there is simply no money, nothing but a small bit of travel, nothing that some retired professionals can't pay for out of pocket. There is AFAIK no budget, nothing to control them with. You are being deceptive, making up ligaments of control that don't exist, and acting real smug at your ability to keep making them up and putting the weight of imagined contrivances on these ligaments. And none of it's real, just words without meaning spewing from your ugly, hate-poisoned heart, desperate to fling enough that some might stick.

    Your words are evidence of something, all right. Keep 'em coming, we're learning more about you all the time.

  66. Words without meaning, indeed. I don't even understand the half of what he comes out with.

    I do know, however, that he hasn't given us the slightest hint of what evidence he relies on for his belief that Megrahi put the bomb on PA103.

    The vibe I'm getting is that he doesn't like Gadaffi, and he sees any attempt to point out that there's no evidence Megrahi had anything to do with Lockerbie as evidence of support for Gadaffi.

    The logical holes in this should be obvious to anyone.

  67. The vibe I'm getting is that Rolfe doesn't know (or even care) how to spell Gaddafi!

  68. Sure I do. But I don't think the Blogger software accepts Arabic characters.

  69. معمر القذافي‎

  70. Oh, thanks Blogiston, I didn't know it would do that.

  71. If only you could read Arabic, Rolfe.

    Blogiston is wishing you a nice pancake day.

    How sweet!

  72. Patrick - how do you spell it? (Hint - no roman letters)

  73. oops, had sat on that for hours, aren't we all so smart here?

    Phoentically of course some ways are better than others. Single-D, double-f, not the best, IMO. But I dunno. The Kh emphasizes Klingon-like enemy-ness, the Q version emphasiize the quirky and daffy aspect, G ariants I think tries for sensitivity to nuance, and softening, as Pinyin Chinese did with Peking becoming Beijing, Tse Tung to Zedong, etc.

    If only people wouldn't look so strange shifting on a month-to-month basis, the government's and media's job of managing our prejudices towards معمر القذافي would be a lot easier. Easy enough as it is.

  74. The vibe I'm getting is that he doesn't like Gadaffi, and he sees any attempt to point out that there's no evidence Megrahi had anything to do with Lockerbie as evidence of support for Gadaffi.

    The logical holes in this should be obvious to anyone.

    Indeed, all this humoring, or even acknowledging, his supposed arguments. is in actuality and academic exercise. It's only for the impressionable out there (Bunntamas for one, her mom and others surely), and for my own peace of mind, that I felt I should dig in and find/show that pretty much his number one point seems to have nothing.

    The Jamahiriya Student Union. Any other student out there member, like to post a comment here? You ever forced to blow things up, lynch an infidel, or spring a terrorist from jail by co-opting and controlling soft liberal dupes? It's finally safe to come out with Gaddafi tottering.

    No show from Suli to create the first internet entry for the JSU as a clandestine terror front, just yet. Some lame duck-out that I've deleted comments before, from people who were known spammers, when here I'm asking for the input (Google the origins of the term spam and you'll see that's the opposite).

    Again, he's hemorrhaging credibility and should ask for a re-assignment. This one does nothing for one's karma.

  75. Mr. Adam Larson says above, "If people are really running around "burning the evidence" of Swissy, what's up with JFM's main page?" As usual, Larson either fails to see the answer to his question, or else intentionally aims to misinform others that it does not exist. His question refers to my following statement:
    "(5) What is left of the JFM Committee and Mr. Larson are trying to sweep their association with the Jamahiriya Student Union under the rug, leaving it unmentioned even in the pretense of documenting their history."

    Evidently, it is the association of JFM with JSU that I say the JFM and Larson are hiding. That is the "it" that JFM left unmentioned in its history, and that is the "it" that Mr. Larson also worked to hide. The JFM main page provided above by Larson lists the name "Mr. Abdullah Swissy" as a co-founder, but it is completely silent about his serving as a JSU officer. JFM knew "It" but they also kept "It" to themselves in that lame attempt at public disclosure. Do you get this, Larson? The name does not mean crap, especially since it does not include Swissy's tribal connection. Can you guess what that is?
    Larson further confesses, "You caught me editing him out of a post, and great job. It was the quotes one, right? I removed all Libyans and their lawyers (and later expert witnesses) If you think I'm covering something up by that, I'd like to hear just what it is. "

    Here "it" is again in what I told you previously:
    (6) And in his own contrivances to misinform the public, Mr. Larson doctored up his blog so as to erase his prior highlighting of Mr. Swissy's co-affiliation with JFM and the Jamahiriya Student Union, and he replaced it with an emphatically childish statement to the effect, "Look, Ma, no Libyans!"

    "It" is, as I said, the co-affiliation of Swissy with both JFM and JSU, what I call the organic linkage of the two outfits. The material that you erased pointed to the only place where JFM ever publicly disclosed its affiliation with the JSU, albeit using the misleading name (Libyan Student Union). Your so-called quote of Mr. Swissy and his (misleadingly) stated affiliation came from the petition that JFM had sent to the UN General Assembly, then presided over by the Gaddafi regime. You had gone out of your way, as you admit now on your blog, to highlight Swissy's involvement in the JFM and his bridging them to JSU. Then, after reading and replying to some of my critical comments on the JFM-JSU connection, on this blog, you went and sanitized your blog. Now, you say you delete some things for "stupid reasons." No objection. I just wish you could read better, so you would not force me to feed you my foot again and again.

    [continued below]

  76. Wrong place, buddy. I'm not even reading this.

  77. Larson further underscores his need to be re-educated, "But so far I don't see any evidence this particular student union is anywhere near as sinister as self-appointed expert Suliman paints it."

    "I don't see," is often used to insinuate lack of evidence, but when it comes from an evidently blind person... Maybe, Mr. Larson, we should wait until you learn the difference between the "Libyan Student Union" and the "General Union of Students of The Great Jamahiriya." In the mean time, look up some information about "April 7th," and when you find nothing on your English search engine, be sure to declare that there never were any student killings, then ask the JFM co-founder to translate for you what his Scotland-Newcastle chapter of JSU said just last April, in celebration of the bloody events you so ignorantly dismiss. In addition to making you look like a fool, their statement makes reference to a "cleansing" of the Libyan universities, and it also speaks of Gaddafi disciples all around the world. On your blog, you say you deleted Swissy's name and affiliation "to purify" your list of quotes. Purify as in cleanse, I suppose. How good are you at chanting, disciple Larson? Forget that now, you do much hunting?
    Here is the link to your allies, be sure to sink your teeth in what the Revolutionary Crew said:
    Don't forget to notice the domain name is LibyanSU, deigned just for brilliant people like you who can't read the site banner or the signature on the announcements. Make sure to come back and declare there is no evidence of anything called Jamahiriya Student Union. How pathetic! And you expect me to lower myself and debate you on your blog?

    The education of Adam Larson will continue, as time permits, and after he tells us how Swissy translates the passage.

  78. And this ads up to evidence that Abdelbaset Megrahi bought these clothes from Tony Gauci just how, exactly?

  79. Okay, broke down and did a rough translation of that state-sponsored marking of their version of the foruth of July here, and pro-government message. Even photos show, people sitting down. No lynchings or terrorism. They get/make some of the students sit through a patriotic speech from a government that has committed violence and that you deeply, deeply, deeply loathe.

    It's the equivalen of a loony-left radical decrying the Boy Scouts as promoters of war, oppression, rape, and genocide. Follow the reasoning they used to get there, and it's twice as good as yours.

    Words without meaning, but punchy and well-chosen. That's the last I have the patience for, however. I only wish we had an ignore button here. Bring it to the right spot and I'll consider the next best thing you can find, but to know for my sake, no need to to keep cluttering the Prof's blog with this.

  80. Rolfe: Once again you are countering arguments of your own invention, in order to side step the real arguments, after you have failed to brush them aside on the lame excuse of lacking personal knowledge of your adversary.

    No one said the record of the JSU has a direct and necessary bearing on the Lockerbie case. Here is what is being said: The JSU are partners in founding the JFM campaign. That fact has a bearing on documenting the lack of independence of JFM, and documenting the inability of JFM staff to establish its independence from the Gaddafi regime. Here are the things being said by me:

    (1) The Justice for Megrahi campaign was co-founded by an officer of a foreign state institution, and by that I mean the Jamahiriya Student Union is part of the official instruments of governance of the Gaddafi dictatorship, not an NGO by any stretch of the imagination. The General Secretary of the JSU has a seat and a vote in the so-called General People's Congress, which is officially the highest legislative body in Gaddafi's Libya. That Libyan state had a hand in building JFM, and from Mr. Forrester's sweeping disclosure that JFM is funded by its committee, it follows that the Libyan state also had a hand in funding JFM.

    (2) Your partners in the campaign for justice have never disavowed their mob killings of Libyan students on university campuses. On the contrary, they celebrate them every year, and if any Scottish member of JFM ever took part in JSU celbrations, even as a guest, this would be the time to fess up.

    (3) JFM officials, including you, have said quite a bit here, but you all have yet to deny your association with JSU and have yet to disavow the "judicial" history of extra-judicial killings and state-sponsored terrorism conducted by an organization that is organically linked to your campaign. If you can muster an argument to dissociate the JFM from the terrorist organization and institution of a terrorist state, then I would like to read that, too.

  81. Mr. Larson:

    OK, now it seems you have learned something about JSU vs. Libyan Student Union. Is that right, or am I crediting you with too much?

    Your first homework for the day is to go and eat every remark you made about equating the two. For extra credit, you can consider the applicability of your jump-ship logic to leaders of the JSU. You believe Abdel Jalil is jumping ship, but that does not seem to cross your mind when you find something about some "Libyan Student Union" leader speaking against Gaddafi in Indiana. Yet, you have the gall to put logic in your name? So Gaddafi's ministers can jump ship, his diplomats, too, but not JSU officers, huh?

    Now, it is time for your new lesson. and it is about what you call the "equivalent of July 4th." I advised you to consult Swissy on the translation, and if you had followed my advice, you would not be revealing more of your ignorance. What your JFM co-founders were celebrating, and what they call "Student Revolution" is a very different thing from what they call "The Great al-Fatih Revolution," and it is the latter that they treat--unjustifiably--as national independence day. Their al-Fatih revolution has an anniversary of Sept 1, 1969, and it was a military coup. Their so-called student revolution anniversary was April 7th, 1976, and their annual student murders continued thereafter for years. I'm not sure you could do the arithmetic, but the numbers say your partners were formed about 6.5 years after their version of national independence day. So where did you get the equivalence of April 7th to July 4th? I can tell you the answer to that one, if you have trouble locating parts of your own body.

    What else do you see in common with July 4th? I did not know that July 4th marks an occasion when US students, on orders of a US ruler in office for 6.5 years, went on a "cleansing campaign" of US universities from non-revolutionary students. But, apparently, you do. I did not know that George Washington, after 6.5 years in office, went to tribal leaders and asked them to storm the university and trample upon other US students. But you do, apparently, and I wish you would expand a little more on your continuing campaign of fumbles, contrivances, and now blatant lies.

    Looking forward to your next lesson? I am guessing it will cover some important events, names of April 7th victims of the JSU, and a few pointers on the difference between being expelled for something and being convicted of it. Don't worry about your clutter because it is devoid of any substance and presents no resistance to the foot that's feeding you.

  82. My tuppence worth, seeing as the last one required ticketing it seems..

    And of course, only the most sanctimonious fool would ever attempt to argue that anyone or anybody attempting to right a wrong, is more worthy of contemptible criticism than, say, those who squeeze compensation from innocent people, or sup from the very government cup that fermented the lie, and then choose to ignore the glaring questions that remain over the guilty verdict which preceded this compensation.

    Then again, someone who supports the wrongful accusation of Libya, its people and the conviction in every instance, costing the Libyan people $3billion, and imposing many years of economic terrorism, takes sanctimony to a new precedence.

  83. Eddie, I agree that, whatever one might say about accepting "stolen money," knowing what is to have bills to pay, etc. - it is worse to let your silence be bought and act like you believe the whole case - than to speak up and revel to the slimy little Sulimans of the world that you consider the money essentially "stolen."

    But to him, it's a reward for toeing the line, not to subsidize free thought.

    I said I'd ignore you now, but that was partly tiredness. I am copying over what you said here to the dedicated post where the LSU/JSU thing is to be sorted out. Not sure why you are so reluctant to help. ...