Friday 8 January 2010

Reaction to Newsnight programme

[The following e-mail was sent by Frank Duggan to Tom Thurman and copied to Mark Hirst and me amongst others.]

Tom - that BBC video is rubbish. It must gall you to have your own experience and background deliberately misstated, but worse, to have the whole investigation continually called into question by others with unsupported theories. I would hope that there would be one reporter in the UK who would understand that the piece of timer in question, as well as other pieces of evidence, were not destroyed because the plane was not blown up! It was torn apart, and even pieces of paper that were in that suitcase were recovered. Perhaps we can remind them what happens when a pinhole is made in a balloon, and that the relatively small explosive charge created a gas shockwave penetrating the skin of the plane and blowing off the front nose portion.

Perhaps I am asking too much.

[The following e-mail was sent by Mark Hirst to Frank Duggan and copied to me.]

Tom Thurman complains [in an e-mail to Richard Marquise] that the BBC left out his other "relevant" background. Fred Whitehurst (former FBI Crime Lab Supervisor) has made it plain Thurman could not in any way describe himself as a scientist. He is certainly not qualified in the Printed Circuit Board (PCB) industry. Furthermore his comments related to PT35 confirm that the "link" was made not through scientific tests, but merely through a visual ID of the circuit board, after the most experienced explosive experts in the UK could not identify it, nor could the dozens of PCB manufacturers that police investigators visited.

As a former PCB quality assurance inspector myself (with the largest PCB manufacturer in the world) and who has spoken to a number of colleagues in the industry, there are a large number of scientific tests that could have, and should have, been carried out on PT35, but which were not. These would have given a clearer indication whether this fragment came from the timer device alleged. But as is clear in the trial transcript and below there was no actual scientific testing applied to this fragment, beyond the visual ID of a man whose professional integrity has, as is already widely known and reported, been brought into serious question in other criminal investigations. Sadly the same is true of Mr Feraday and the dubious forensic evidence he provided in other serious miscarriages of justice in the UK.

Sadly the Crown Office statement once again seems more concerned with upholding the reputation of the conviction, regardless of whether it deserves it or not - it clearly does not in this case. They are defending the indefensible, and leading the Scottish legal system further into the mire.

As a lifelong Scottish patriot, it pains me to say it but the reputation of the much vaunted independent Scottish legal system has been irredeemably damaged by this shoddy conviction, made worse by the subsequent sycophantic statements by the Crown Office to appease extreme right wing political sentiment in the US, whilst all the time one of the prime (PFLP-GC) suspects in this case sits comfortably in his home in Washington... What tragic irony.

Mr Duggan and those behind him (and I don't mean the US relatives of PA103) may take comfort in the knowledge that they are in some way reflecting and upholding the realpolitik of US global geo-political interests in persisting in the utter nonsense of this conviction, but eventually, regardless of the "appropriateness" of the forum, the full truth of this atrocity will come to light sooner or later. I would suggest, if they have not already done so, that the Crown Office press team begin drafting some preparatory lines to reflect that reality as it continues to enter the public domain, if we have any hope of salvaging the reputation of Scots law. I fear however it may be too late.


  1. It is strange that Mr Thurman should seek to raise the case of the other pieces of paper in the suitcase.

    It is generally held by all resonable commentators that there was an explosion of such intensity that it brought down an aircraft. Mr Parks, using his explosives experience, rather greater than Mr Thurman's! says a brisant explosion from modern high explosives creates a fireball of some 2000 degree centigrade, sufficient to melt the skin of an aircraft, which is what she see in the reconstruction painted model.

    Unless that paper were made of asbestos it would not survive. Therefore the Horton manual is a fraud.

    Think about it would a decent conspirator pack a manual into that suitcase, or for that matter source the clothing all from the same shop in Malta.

    Only if he wanted a particular message.

    I think I know the name of the mysterious shopper, and it doesn't take a lot of guessing.

    Of course Mr Marquise your views are based on fact and mine are only notions. Then why does Mr Richard Clarke's name appear in conjuction with Pan Am 103, more than yours.

    You said in your book the Clarke of the NSC had only that one contact with you about Mr Behbehani and you hadn't had of any involvement of the White House previously.

    The White House's silence must have been positively deafening.

    Your argument is now reduced to one based solely on authority for there is not a shred of evidence that anything in the Lockerbie investigation is credible, with the exception that is was wickedly blown up.

  2. I always understood that the expolsion punched a relatively small hole in the fuselage, and decompression and air movement and so on did the rest. Wasn't one of the oddities the fact that the hull wouldn't have been breached if the suitcase hadn't hapened to be positioned as close as possible to the hull within the baggage container?

    Nevertheless, all the reconstructions we've seen, including the one in the USA, appear to have produced one helluva fireball from that small-ish amount of Semtex - enough to incinerate paper at least, I'd have thought.

    I don't think anyone can prove that the fragment couldn't possibly have survived, as opposed to its survival being the most amazing fluke - not just that it survived, but that it was probably the only such part of the circuit board that was distinctive enough to be identified.

    If that was the only amazing fluke attached to this case, one might swallow it.

    But it isn't, is it?

  3. The following comment comes from Peter Biddulph:

    There is a schoolboy howler in the Crown office attempt to discredit the John Wyatt experiments.


    "In fact, extensive explosive tests were carried out in the US in 1989 some time before the fragment PT35[B] was extracted by the forensic experts."
    "After a number of test explosions a detailed search was made and circuit board fragments, radio cassette casing and parts, fragments of instruction manuals, the suitcase and clothing were all recovered in a condition that was consistent with the debris recovered in relation to the Lockerbie disaster".


    The fragment was "found" on 12th May 1989 by only one forensic "expert". Dr Thomas Hayes. Until that moment, according to Hayes, no-one knew that the fragment existed. (Source: Trial transcript).

    Only five months elapsed between the night of the bombing and Hayes's discovery of the fragment. So, what do the Crown mean by "some time before" 12th May 1989?

    Nor did the UK or the US know the type of suitcase used, nor the kind of clothing that had surrounded the bomb. The information came to light only following Hayes examination and recording in his forensic notebook. (Source: Trial transcript)

    How could the US explosive experiments before 12th May 1989 be based on knowledge of the existence of PT35B and the type of cassette recorder used, if PT35B, the shirt collar, and fragments of the operating manual were still in their evidence bag at RARDE ?

    The Americans were investigating at that time their strong conviction that Iran and the PFLP-GC carried out the attack using a simple "ice-cube" timer. So, if they were unaware of the existence of the Hayes fragment, what kind of explosive tests did they carry out?

    On what kind of PCB? With what kind of materials? Were the tests logged and filmed? If so, why was the evidence not mentioned during the lengthy trial? Where now are the records? (And I mean scientifically sustainable records in the form of logged sensored readings, forensic analyses, photos, measurements, material)

    And why were the tests and results not mentioned once by either the DoJ, the FBI, the CIA, nor the Scottish Crown in the eleven years between the Hayes finding and the commencement of the trial?

    The Americans did indeed explode a series of aircraft structures. Film of exploding aircraft bodies were shown on Newsnight. Were these of the US tests for the type of Lockerbie bomb? Newsnight did not say so. But whatever they were, none could have been based on PT35B and MEBO timers.

    Filmed interviews with Vincent Cannistraro, and comments on Television by FBI Oliver Revell, plus lately lengthy letters by Richard Marquise - none of these have mentioned the US experiments, nor any kind of supporting proof of the provenance of the fragment. I find that most strange.

    Yet up pops a low priority seven minute segment on a BBC news programme twenty one years after the event, and suddenly the air is full of "evidence" from the US and the Scottish Crown. I find that most strange also.

    I believe that the Crown statement uses disinformation cooked up as a rearguard action. And the FBI and CIA are the acknowledged masters of misinformation, as witnessed by the proven career of the chief of the CIA Lockerbie team, Vincent Cannistraro.

  4. Add to belligerence, inarticulation, cultish adherence to the official line at all cost to credibility, a lack of sarcasm recognition, a slapdash understanding of basic science to Mr. Duggan's list of qualifications.

    "...the piece of timer in question, as well as other pieces of evidence, were not destroyed because the plane was not blown up!"

    Dummy! The suitcase was blown up, by the bomb/radio. The timer was blown up by all tehe force before vaporizing the radio case and suitcase contents, obliterating the whole suitcase, rupturing the luggage container, and finally the airliner's hull in a limited section. At each phase the force would be lessened - radiating out ward and losing force in every battle along the way (radio contents, case, suitcase, container, hull). The timer is among the things at the first step. Eh?

    "[the plane] was torn apart, and even pieces of paper that were in that suitcase were recovered."
    implausibly as well, but luckily, as usual.

    Perhaps we can remind them what happens when a pinhole is made in a balloon, and that the relatively small explosive charge created a gas shockwave penetrating the skin of the plane and blowing off the front nose portion.

    ??? Balloon metaphor supports flawed understanding of plane breakup how? I'm not an expert on the breakup, but "gas wave' doesn't sound right. More like structural instability plus wind turbulence and a toehold on which a vicious cycle sets in ad tears the plane apart. This makes sense:
    Numerous waves of disruption centered around the initial wound tear down to the eskeleton until it gives, separating the front.

    Anyway, in a balloon metaphor, the suitcase bomb being the pinprick I guess, and the timer being... the molecule next to... or part of the pin? or something.... look, it's a stupid metaphor. I'm sure Mr. Thurman loved it.

  5. "[the plane] was torn apart, and even pieces of paper that were in that suitcase were recovered."
    implausibly as well, but luckily, as usual.

    Oops, thought it said "was NOT torn apart"


    Until today, 21 years after the bombing of PanAm 103, the true perpetrators of this horrible atrocity are not yet arrested !

    Mr. Abdelbaset al-Megrahi and Libya merit to get back their honour.

    To convict the true assassins first the following conditions must be fulfilled:

    1) The facts about the 'Lockerbie-Conspiracy' against Libya must be cleared up to their full extent !
    Additionally we expect the opening of the SCCRC documents, as announced by the secretary of justice, Kenny MacAskill, and the opening of the dubious employment contract of the defence team;

    2) The " Miscarriage of Justice" in 6 points, as determined by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC), must according to the additional and new exonerating evidence be confirmed from the Scottish Justiciary in favour of Mr. Megrahi and Libya;

    3) A police investigation against the "Grey Eminence" which had given the order to officials to develop a strategy to implicate Libya, Mr Megrahi and MEBO into the terror act via a MST-13 timer (PT/35) and a slalom T-shirt fragment (PI-995) from Malta must be cleared up;

    4) Blatant errors and proof manipulations should be reexamined by the Scottish Justice and Police to conceal the criminal activities of some well-known officials with the aim to expose the true backers !

    BBC: 'Flaws' in key Lockerbie evidence ?
    See the truth on the second part of the chronology: "The Fraud of the MST-13 (PT-35) fragment", on our website:

    by Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

  7. Mark Hirst: "He is certainly not qualified in the Printed Circuit Board (PCB) industry. Furthermore his comments related to PT35 confirm that the "link" was made not through scientific tests, but merely through a visual ID of the circuit board, after the most experienced explosive experts in the UK could not identify it, nor could the dozens of PCB manufacturers that police investigators visited."

    Personally, it annoys me that people keep harping on his lack of qualifications. We don't know what he doesn't know. He teaches. He may be proficient if not properly qualified. He's been shown to be dishonest with evidence, that's the important part to emphasize.

    But qualifications, aptitude, even honesty hardly even play into his role in this all. HE helped somehow decide it was a bomb, and what container it was in, and later looked at two photos and recognized the same shape. Same perhaps under a microscope. (?) That's it. He had no obligation to forensically study it - that was RARDE's job. He knew Mr "Orkin" with the timer stash and within two days found a match. A trained parrot with the right connection could have done the job twice as well.

    Unless you have evidence Thurman planted the thing after a prior meeting with "Orkin," that seems to be all he did, din't do, etc. A lot of noise over a "yup, that's it."

    It was RARDE folks first testified to it being in with the crash stuff, that failed to swab it, that gave it the okay as evidence, and then the police who accepted Thurman's plea to have a crack at IDing it.

    Oh yeah, that's another thing he did, acc. to Marquise's book, is ask to try identifying the fragment, at an investigator’s conference in Virginia on June 11, with SIO Henderson there in possession of PT/35(b) and finally made their puzzlement over the fragment known to all – 55 companies checked to no avail. Thurman “approached Henderson and asked if he could take photographs of PT-35 and attempt to identify it. Henderson, who believed the Scots had done all they could do, agreed.” [SCOTBOM p 60]

  8. The Crown Office may be referring to the Indian Head forensic tests carried out in mid-April 1989 under the supervision of Tom Thurman Alan Ferraday and Walter Korsegaard of the FAA. (Incidentally Korsegaard has stated his belief that PA103 could have survived the explosion if the bomb had not been so close to the aircraft skin - in the "official version" this was quite fortuitous.)

    These tests were covered in David Leppard's "On the Trail of Terror" and were supposed to determine:-

    (a) the amount of Semtex used;

    (b) the position of the "primary suitcase" within container AVE4041 and purported to confirm CSP Orr's "deduction" that the primary suitcase arrived from Frankfurt.

    I thought the Newsnight piece was really excellent, a concise and coherent narrative - John Wyatt should have his own series.

    I noticed he used a twin speaker radio-cassette. Was he able to identify the make or model from the residue or was the import of the piece that he could not?

    I would be interested to know how the CIA obtained the sample with which Mr Thurman made his photographic comparison - would it have been one of the devices recovered in Senegal in February 1988?

    I would quibble with part of the narrative between Professor Black's and De Swire's statements to camera:-

    "at that point terrorists run from Syria were the suspects - and the theory that the bomb had been loaded at Heathrow. Many most critical of the trial say that is still the most plausible scenario."(Unfortunately many most critical of the trial continue to peddle a hoax.)

    In 1996 I tested PM John Major's astonishing claim the investigation was "open" by pointing out that the bomb "likely built by CIA "asset" Marwan Khreesat" was introduced at Heathrow. I made the same point to the Crown Office (and Mr Duff.)If Dr Swire expected to see the men who murdered his daughter at Camp Zeist I certainly didn't.

    While Khreesat was the Police's initial suspect they were (initially) insistent that the bomb must have been introduced at Frankfurt. Quoting Leppard in the introduction to my article "Lockerbie - The Heathrow Evidence" I wrote:-

    "As the Kamboj edisode showed there had always been an outside chance that a bag had been smuggled into the container at Heathrow. That possibility aside Orr had effectively ruled out Heathrow within three weeks of the bombing".

    And how long after the bombing was the MST-13 fragment discovered (if not identified) - 23days.

    If Heathrow was "still the most plausible scenario" you would not have gathered this from Newsnight's previous coverage of the Lockerbie case, notably a studio interview with the late donald Goddard and Peter Marshall's own quest for the "alternative version of events" - a trip to New York to listen to Juval Aviv!


    The allegedly found of a MST-13 Timer Fragment (PT/35), could not be destroyed by the explosion on PanAm 103, because it does not descend from a functional timer. The PT/35 Fragment was produced and manipulated, without a doubt, from a prototype MST-13 circuit board, from 22nd June 1988 by Officials!

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd. Switzerland

  10. ebol: sorry, 22nd June 1989


  11. What really interests me in all this is why the BBC, which I view as the government's mouthpiece, is suddenly producing a programme to support Megrahi's position

  12. Dear Ruth,

    I have listened to the BBC for over 50 years, and I would not have done "if it were a Government mouthpiece".

    Baz's point that there is not enough evidence to destroy or deny a Lockerbie attribtion is quite correct.

    Now think logically:

    If we have a Lockerbie break-in at Heathrow,

    and it was the origin of the bombing,

    Why does it need any sort of suitcase.

    An earnest Iranian gentleman could have take it through that break-in door, and SANS SUITCASE planted it.


  13. Come, come Charles!

    The BBC have always scrupulously toed the 'official' line on Lockerbie, never querying or doubting.

    Then, as Ruth points out, Newsnight "is suddenly producing a programme to support Megrahi's position".

    Could it be that Gordon Brown is a reader of this blog, and has decided to make Lockerbie an election issue? (as I anticipated earlier this month):

    "I note that the PM has not responded to the relatives' request for a meeting at Number 10. If, by avoiding the request, Gordon Brown is hoping to prevent Lockerbie becoming an issue at the forthcoming General Election, he should think again.

    "In my view, Lockerbie could be an amazing election winner for Mr Brown.

    "The Conservative administrations of Margaret Thatcher and John Major never wanted the truth about Lockerbie to come out, and David Cameron will do his utmost to hush matters up before the election."

  14. I don't think it would be about an election. It would be more likely to be about getting out of something. Maybe the government is worried about the weight of the UK relatives'judicial review and needs to hand them a sop. Maybe it's to take away 'Megrahi's guilt' as he's still alive. I don't know but there most definitely would be an ulterior reason why the BBC ihas suddenly 'changed sides'

  15. Dear Ruth, Patrick, Baz, Ebol and Caustic (if Mr Logic will allow me to use his first name),

    I find it's a bit like being in an Isiah Berlin story about the fox and the hedgehog. The fox had many dilettante thoughts and the hedgehog only one big one.

    About Lockerbie, I am the Hedgehog, I know what I know and discard the rest.

    My sory, which I WANT you to know is both complicated and succinct. I am trying to publish it, for it will revolutionise Lockerbie thought when it is out, and then, like yesterday's Tabloid story it is gone, old hat.

    Please collectively advise me; do I publish here, or in a great black and white ink paper. I cannot live with it much longer.

    If certain gents are not happy with the story my address is..
    where they may quickly put me out of my misery.

    Friends, plesae


  16. If you some important information you should release it immediately for the sake of the relatives who have suffered too long.

  17. Dear Charles, before you explode you should release some air into this blog.

  18. Caustic_Logic
    then that little circled "a" shape

    I'm also collecting for a new website and would be happy to finally see this stuff you've got and what might help there. if you're interested.

    Anyone here - German Adam too, I have a Grman show I'd like to know if anything amazing is in it. Team effort? e-mails?

  19. Charles, it depends on your priority. If you want to make money from this, sit on it until someone will pay you.

    Like Jim Swire seems to be doing.

    On the other hand if you really think you have something original and valuable, and you have your theory as well-worked-out and as well-referenced as you can, put it on the Internet.

    There are other compromises of course. There are ways of putting internet content behind a paywall, or you can prepare a PDF of your text and get it printed quite cheaply - cheaply enough to make a modest profit if people want to buy it from you. Again, get the copies and then advertise it online.

    But quite frankly, isn't getting the truth out the most important thing? And I'd say that to Dr. Swire too.

  20. Dear Rolfe and others,

    Very fair question. Am I in it for the money?

    As close readers of my stuff will observe I have been paid by the Libyans through the UTA settlement, and the sum was not unadjacent to $1M.

    I am still interested in the true Lockerbie story, and if I were to think about how many hours I had thought, I would have to say about 10,000 (sic).

    Almost every single day since Tony died.

    I thank all of you suggesting I post, but don't expect there's a "deus e machina". Everything I write is available on the internet now, to any who have spent the amount of time I have!

  21. Everything I write is available on the internet now, to any who have spent the amount of time I have!

    I'm sure that's true, but how many people can spend that much time on it? The learning curve to assimilate the available information is daunting. Synthesising that into a coherent theory is PhD level.

    Just because you've figured something out, doesn't mean that everyone (or even anyone) else will be able to do it. If you don't share it, how do we (or even you) know if it flies, or whether it has a huge flaw?

    You could publish it on a blog, and leave it open for comments. Others may be able to refine it for you, or spot problems. Or if it's unassailable, people will say so.

  22. Mr Norrie aka Charles: before you get publishing anything (especially your home address for goodness sake), could you please sign my petition which closes on 28th January 2010.

    Another 482 signatures are required to ensure that Gordon Brown must reply to each individual signatory!

    A certain Charles Byard Norrie was the 27th signatory of my last failed attempt two years ago - so let's make a quantum leap this time, eh?

  23. Dear Charles
    We have studied your full Lockerbie-Thesis. Which they wrote are great and the best.
    We wish you a successful new year and good health
    Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

  24. While awaiting Charles' amazing revelations may I return to Peter Biddulph's interesting point as I have done some research and came across something that supports Mr Biddulph's point even though the Crown statement may be largely a lie or a gross exaggeration.

    Mr Biddulph had quoted the Crown statement that:-

    "after a number of test explosions a detailed search was made and circuit board fragments, radio cassette casings and parts, fragments of instruction manuals, the suitcase and clothing were all recovered in a condition that was consistent with the debris recovered in relation to the Lockerbie disaster".

    Mr Biddulph posed the question "how could the US explosives experiments before the 12th May 1989 be based on knowledge of the existence of PT35B and the type of cassette recorder used, if PT35B the shirt collar and fragments of the operating manual were still in their evidence bag at RARDE?"

    The simple answer is that they were not based on knowledge of the existence of PT35B or the operating manual.

    In February 1989 RARDE had identified the radio cassette used as a model RT8016 or RT8026. (Notably from a fragment of the speaker grill found in the "data plate" of AVE4041.) The "Horton" user's manual had been recovered but it's significance not appreciated and it was on this basis of this dubious exhibit that their Lordship's concluded the radio-cassette was a model SF-16. I believe the "primary suitcase" had been identified as a Samsonite tourister although I cannot find the date when an officer was despatched to Samsonite HQ.

    "Aku" makes the point that Mr (not "Doctor") Wyatt's tests did not duplicate conditions at 31,000 feet. Neither did the Indian Head tests. Mr Wyatt's tests were more accurate in that the supposed sparse contents of the "primary suitcase" were duplicated. At Indian Head the test suitcases were filled with random material from the FAA's lost luggage Warehouse.

    The Indian Head tests were held daily over five days from April 18th 1989 affording little time to examine the debris. The explosions were videotaped. In the fourth test Leppard quotes Harry Bell that "Due to an uncontrollable fire caused by the detonation results were not easily recordable as during previous tests."

    At page 39 of "On the Trail of Terror" Leppard writes

    "Allen Feraday built five radio cassette bombs. He placed the five lumps of explosives inside five models of a Toshiba RT8016 radio cassette player. It was a grim reminder of the work of Marwan Khreesat six months earlier.-

    Even the circuit boards he used had white plastic bars, similar to those which were believed to be on the circuit boards of the actual bomb.-

    Each of Feraday's five radio bombs was placed inside a hard-sided Samsonite suitcase along with an assortment of clothes sprayed with a distinctive colour of paint for ease of identification"

    The blindingly obvious question is not only how did Feraday know that the circuit boards used in the actual bomb had white plastic bars (as featured in the "Newsnight" film) but how did he know the actual bomb incorporated a circuit board at all?

  25. At the risk of extending this link further, Mr. Hirst's comments need to be corrected and expanded. First, while he may be a "PCB quality assurance inpspector," I do not believe Mr. Hirst ever saw PT-35 nor did any of the many colleagues with whom he consulted. Mr. Thurman DOES have the academic and practical experience which allowed him to do his job in the FBI lab--he had years of experience in the US Army as an explosives expert and has an academic degree --Masters of Forensic Science--which gives him the academic background as well. However, although Mr. Hirst still seems to doubt the provence of the fragment of PT-35, stating that a number of other tests should have been conducted to determine if in fact it came from a MST-13 MEBO timer. That fact is clearly established. It was initially identified by Mr. Thurman and this finding was corroborated by Mr. Feraday. This was also confirmed by both Mr. Bollier and Mr. Lumpert. The court found this to be accurate and then the SCCRC also found no problem with the origins of PT-35. What additional tests would you have had carried out Mr. Hirst?
    One other point--who is this suspect Mr. Hirst has identified for us from the PFLP-GC who is living in Washington? Tell me one iota of evidence which exists against him?

  26. Mark Hirst writes

    "whilst all the time one of the prime PFLP-GC suspects in the case sits at home in Washington".

    This is what I meant when I wrote

    "Many most critical of the trial continue to peddle a hoax."

  27. Thank you baz for saying that my conclusions might be considered amazing. I would be quite happy if they were logical. I can't agree with the Lockerbie father who said to me "Charles, there's more to Lockerbie than logic!" ( the ! is mine.

    Meanwhile did anyone notice that the final explosion in the Newsnight film happened to be (a) large, much bigger than the IED that brought down the Maid and (b) seemed to be at the front of the rear hold, not the forehold as the explosion that brought down the Maid.

    Why. Was the reporter alleging there was a second explosion without saying so, which would fit in with the half sentence claim in the Today trailer that the suitcase might have been planted after the plane was down.

    Just another unconsidered trifle to be snapped up. Meanwhile why does the CIA press release of 22 December 1988 refer to a claim from the UDL or Ulster Defense League, a body last heard from in 1908

  28. Mr Marquise comes up with another obseqious bow to Authority, such as the one the Vatican condemned Galileo's theory for.

  29. I too would be delighted if your conclusions are logical. Even better if they were based on evidence and were even factually accurate. I live in hope!

  30. argh, Mr Marquise only sounds like one of these bold cops who say: innocent? guilty? who cares? My job is to bring him to court! In his book Mr Marquise is much more reflective.
    I am still waiting for him to come out.

  31. Ebol, you'll excuse me of course if I flat ignore your silly rebuttals of Dr. Wyatt's valuable work.

    ...and then engage in a sidetrack you started. I was looking again at the evidence tag for PI/995, labeled by someone's slow child in magic marker.
    image link
    That's the "charred debris" Slalom collar the fragment of imagination was found in, that Gauci specifically recalled NOT selling the mystery shopper of Nov 23. So the shirt was not sold to the guy who couldn't be Megrahi, and it's attested to being found. Here the tag is "production in case agains" today's date, and apparently found in (faint illegible smudge). It's a bad copy from a Mebo site, badly warped (water damage?). I'd love to see the original.

    It's signed here by three people, Gilchrist - right, as "T Gilchrist DC," and McColm - left, as "(GM?) 'Colm, D/C S/clyde (Strathclyde police)" and T. Hayes (I think - above). Also added, illegible note, probably not a sig, at bottom left, and maybe "MOD PER 16 Dec" with an odd double through part lower right.

    The funny thing is what seems Hayes' signature. It's not on the lower field of split lines the others used, but above on the two long lines reserved for "Nature/Locus of Crime." Is that just a goof or a sick joke?

  32. Dear Caustic,

    Good Point.


    Hayes examined it in second week May 1989 when it clearly contained cloth.

    I suggest that sometime after 22 June 1989 the date a gent investigating Lockerbie paid court to Mr Lumpert who gave him a MEBO circuit board, property of MEBO Ltd. I'm not saying money changed hands but, if it was given, it was very generous of Mr Lumpert whose reputation would be trashed over it.

    A fragment then made its way into that label last examined in May, which was redesignated DEBRIS.

    But surely Hayes would have signed it on in May, and wouldn't do it again. Until we've got other examples of how Mr Hayes signed off his work, I don't think there's more we can say??

    Mr Marquise will say yet again, only theories Mr Norrie, no facts, but a fact isn't a fact until it is argued into a context.

  33. It always had cloth, but the label change to Debris almost looks like an effort to obscure what it really was. But it was clearly cloth, so ???

    I too suspect the fragment was planted, for many reasons, and for almost as many I dismiss Mr. Lumpert's story as yet more ridiculous Mebo antics. Ooh, it was "affidiavit!" He bravely "admitted" to stealing a circuit board! But this guy works for Bollier, and he is on a "Mission: Lockerbie."

    He's egged on by a prize, Bollier himself said in 2008, of $200 million from Libya to "get Megrahi freed." has keeps with the silly tales of green boards swapped for brown, swapped for green, with mysterious "scratches" appearing and disappearing. And dismissing Dr. Wyatt's recent tests with unsubstantiated hearsay from his days in the desert with the Libyans. Boards unharmed my ass.

    And that this story is from the same file as that he called on to help convict Megrahi in the first place, from his December 1988 "catch lettter" (the first implication of Libya in the bombing by anyone came from Bollier, alreadt hinting an MST-13 would be found, BTW) to his pivotal trial at Kamp von Zeist. The judges said, sad as it seems now:
    "In relation to the first accused, there are three important witnesses, Abdul Majid (Giaka), Edwin Bollier and Tony Gauci." [final judgment, para 41]

    So in short, I see little reason to trust information coming from those channels. An MST-13 to cut up and insert could come from anywhere - that Florida company making fakes for the CIA (alleged), confiscations in the field, Thuring, Bollier himself...

    Just how and when and by whom it was done is relatively immaterial unless you had time-traveling or psychic powers to get the real scoop. One thing that's clearer now than ever, and the main one we should stick with, is it almost certainly did not come from 2 inches from the 312 gram semtex pat inside the bomb radio that brought down PA103.

  34. Sorry above, I meant to type

    He's egged on by a prize, Bollier himself said in 2008, of $200 million from Libya to "get Megrahi freed." He has the same mountains of good evidence and arguments we all do, and yet he keeps on with the silly tales of green boards swapped for brown, ...

  35. And apologies, back to the subject, Aku and Baz, excellent contributions esp. on Feraday's tests. Nothing to add myself ATM. It's true I seem to have imagined the "Dr." before Wyatt, and will probably have to fix that.

  36. John Wyatt is entitled to be called "Dr". His qualifications are MBE MIExpE PhD. His PhD is in explosives engineering.

  37. Thanks, Prof. Black QC FRSE. I thought I'd gotten that from somewhere, just not the first two places I double-checked.

    I've added the Thurman/Feraday tests that JUST preced the fragment's discovery to list of things I need to study in detail.

    On a Q above, Baz:
    I would be interested to know how the CIA obtained the sample with which Mr Thurman made his photographic comparison - would it have been one of the devices recovered in Senegal in February 1988?

    From what I've seen, this was from the stash taken in Togo, in or around September 1986. Richard Louis Sherrow, US Army, (BATF?) gave testimony about visiting Lome and photographing TWO MST-13s and taking ONE back to Washington in a diplomatic pouch - in the "custody" of Mr. (William?) Casey, but physically taken by Mr. Sherrow. It seems to be It was then taken to the CIA's archives or whatever. This board has odd spatters all over, some unfilled solder lines, was designated "K-1" and visible in photos Thurman displayed for the news.
    image - PT/35(b) and K-1

    They got hold of one of the Senegal timers (out of 2-10, depending on source) only in 1990 IIRC via the French Ministry of Justice.

  38. I think it is most likely that the MST timer that was the source of the comparison piece was the Senegal timer, whereas the fragemt placed in the evidence stream at Fort Halstead (RARDE) ((it was never ever on the ground in Newcastleton)) was the one obtained from Mr Lumpert on 22 June 1989 an confessed to by him in 2007.

    Why can this inference be made? Well it's very strange to my way of thinking that the CIA never makes anything of the fact that UT-772 is attributed to Libya with 10 times the amount of evidence. Such a linked claim would be a very valuable argument. Mr Cannistrao never stands up and says "wait a minute, Libya is a serial terrorist country, for they have done UTA as well as Lockerbie". Such similar fact evidence is very compelling.

    Remember I have worked out that the CIA met the Juge in Washington towrds the end of 1990, which is the hinge of the beginning of the Libya attribution account.

    This is given by a throw away line in Mr McNamara's letter supporting the UT-772 case evidence for the civil American UTA claim - Pugh v. Libya. Naturally this meeting is never mentioned in the Lockerbie trial papers nor any of the UTA ones.

    The Juge did not want his straightforward claim in UTA against Libya being screwed up by loony CIA jobs. I think he told them so. In return he would assist the CIA in deluding the Lockerbie investigation. For example, Mr Marquise met the Juge in 1991, and to the least he (M) was impressed with him (the Juge), saying in private correspondence with me that he "was above my pay level". The Juge is always full of vitriol for the anglo-american approach to things (je calls it "anglo-saxon", and is a typical nationalist patriotic Frenchman with all the views of that sort of person, who reminds one constantly that he is of the 11th generation of examining magistrates in his family going all the way back to the reign of Louis XV.

    To make it seem all the more credible Cannistrao left the Agency well before the indictments, but had set up the process of blamimg Libya. He was really a good characeter to have around as he was a serial Libya-phode, having arranged the Tripoli raid.

  39. MISSION LOCKERBIE: Caustic logic,
    this MST-3 timer of 1999, does not have a meaning.

    Label 438 shows a MST-3 timer with housing was handed over (1999) by Libya at Judge Bruguiere, Ministry OF Justice Paris.

    Excerpt, Kamp van Zeist: Witness no. 528
    Q--- And on the label, does it say where it came from?
    And can you tell me what the item is that you have in front of you now?

    A--- (Richard Louis Sherrow, US Army), It appears to be a similar type timer. Q---Can you just, for our assistance, read to us the description on the label. A--- It's a description --"MST 13 timer." Q--- And on the label, does it say where it came from? A---It says: "Handed over by Judge
    Bruguiere, Paris, Ministry of Justice." Q---Thank you. And is there a date for that? A ---It is 27/10/99.----

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

  40. Thanks again Pofessor Black. I am delighted to learn that Doctor Wyatt is so eminently qualified. The Newsnight story referred to him only as "John Wyatt". His qualifications are in fact noted on the website of his company SDS but not in the potted biography by Doctor wyatt's photo on the home page.

    As "Lockerbie researcher" Peter Biddulph was apparently unaware of the Indian Head forensic tests was my answer of assistance?

  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

  42. Dear Dick,

    As Mark Hirst is unable of unwilling to respond to your reasonable question may I be of assistance?

    The "evidence" that this Washington resident is "Abu Elias" can be found in the risible Private Eye article of December 2009 "The other names in the frame-up." (I presume its publication was co-ordinated with Ms Grahame's stunt of "naming" this person under parliamentary privilege.)

    Essentially this is a further modification of the "drug conspiracy theory" (except perhaps without the drugs!) involving Khalid Jafaar who is described in the article as a "named" PFLP-GC member. (Jafaar was previously a "named" Hezbollah member evidenced by the recovery of a Hezbollah T-shirt at Tundergarth and the claims of a supposed "Jafaar family meber featured in the fraudulent "Maltese Double Cross".)

    "Abu Elias" was a supposed person who featured in Marwan Khreesat's self-serving "statements" (related to the Court at Camp Zeist as hearsay evidence by your former colleagues.)

    The Private Eye article is based on revelations linking "Abu Elias" to Khalid Jafaar featured in the "Goben memorandum". Well not quite. There is no evidence the Goben memorandum exists. (The Private Eye article itself states "if it did exist".) If it exists there is no evidence that it is genuine and if genuine no evidence that it is true. However the article gets around these difficulties in familiar fashion (see The Maltese Double cross and Cover-up of Convenience) by referring to the "evidence" of unidentified relatives of Goben as to the contents.

    I am personally baffled as to why this story did not mention Ulster Secretary Peter Mandelson's secret trip to Syria at Christmas 2000 during the Camp Zeist trial - I pointed this out to Heather Mills in October 2009 - and wished her good luck with "Dancing on Ice"!

    According to these "relatives" "Abu Elias" travelled with Jafaar from Belgrade to Frankfurt. In "The Maltese Double Cross" a non-existent witness "Mr Goldblum" was created to "prove" Jafaar had travelled to Sweden to meet Abu Talb, who (according to the supposed information of another relative) gave him a blue babygro! (Jafaar was, in most versions of this fantasy an innocent dupe.)

    As I commented "many most critical of the trial continue to peddle a hoax."