Sunday 8 August 2010

Cardinal in attack on US 'vengeance'

[This is the headline over the front page lead in today's edition of Scotland on Sunday. It reads in part:]

The leader of Scotland's Roman Catholics has hit out at America's "culture of vengeance" and told US Senators they have no right to question the standards of Scotland's justice system over the release of the Lockerbie bomber.

In an extraordinary intervention into the row over Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, Cardinal Keith O'Brien condemns the American justice system and highlights a "conveyor belt of killing" in its use of the death penalty.

He accuses the American system of being based on "vengeance and retribution" and says he is glad to live in a country where "justice is tempered with mercy". He also likens America's executions to those in China, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran and highlights those countries' poor human rights records.

He says the US Senators seeking to question Scottish and British government ministers should instead "direct their gaze inwards". (...)

O'Brien's comments, contained in an article in today's Scotland on Sunday, come after US senators revealed plans last month to hold an inquiry into the release of Megrahi, the only man convicted of the Lockerbie atrocity, in which 270 people were killed.

The Cardinal says today he backs the decision by First Minister Alex Salmond not to send his ministers to the US for a Senate hearing, saying that Scottish ministers are answerable to Scots and not to the US. He then turns attention back onto the American system of justice. He writes:

"Perhaps the consciences of some Americans, especially members of the US Senate, should be stirred by the ways in which justice is administered in so many of their own states."

Quoting the Bible, he adds: "Perhaps it is time for them to cast out the beam from their own eye before seeking the mote in their brothers'. Perhaps they should direct their gaze inwards, rather than scrutinising the working of the Scottish justice system." (...)

While not explicitly endorsing the decision to release Megrahi, O'Brien offers a clear hint he believes Scottish ministers were right to do just that. "It is in the midst of such inhuman barbarism (shown by Megrahi] that we must act to affirm our own humanity," he writes. "They may plunge to the depths of human conduct but we will not follow them."

He adds: "I believe that only God can forgive and show ultimate compassion to those who commit terrible crimes and I would rather live in a country where justice is tempered by mercy than exist in one where vengeance and retribution are the norm." (...)

Frank Duggan, spokesman of the Victims of Pan Am 103 group, which represents the views of US relatives, said: "I'm a Catholic and we know that the Catholic Church has long opposed the death penalty. But I think the bishop here should stick to his knitting, and render unto Caeser's what is Caesar's."

[The report on the Cardinal's views on the BBC News website can be read here and that on the Newsnet Scotland website can be read here. Dr Jim Swire's reaction to Cardinal O'Brien's article, as contained in an e-mail to me, is as follows:]

When I first went to see Colonel Gaddafi in 1991, a week or two after Mr Al-Megrahi and Kalifa Fhima were first publicly accused of this terrible crime, it was to ask the Colonel to allow his citizens to appear in front of a Scottish court.

Why? There were three reasons: first, even then I felt sure that if tried in the USA both men would be judicially executed by a system which operates perilously close to the doctrine that might is right, and that truth can be bought.

Second, that for those deemed to be the enemy of 'God's Own Country' the quality of the evidence against them might be less important than the opportunity for vengeance to be seen to be done: that death should be delivered summarily. Unfortunately the notion that God is on your country's side has led men to commit so much malevolent slaughter down the ages that the whole name of religion can be criticised.

The third reason was that I believed the Scottish system of justice to be among the fairest. Those who seem to lust for this man's death should look not at the details of why he was released, but the question of whether he really was guilty. It was Scotland's SCCRC which studied his case and decided that the trial might have been a miscarriage of justice, and it is Scotland which has not yet found a way to follow up that finding with a vehicle allowing re-examination of the whole case, under the rigour of our law.

We must find that way now. Scotland must have an honest second look at the evidence, accommodating all the new evidence that has arisen since Megrahi's trial. Unless she does, our reputation for fairness and compassion will be destroyed at the bar of history. Our overall adherence to the need to prove cases 'beyond reasonable doubt' must be re-established.

Meanwhile let us join with the Cardinal in giving thanks to our God if we admit One, that this man, who may well be innocent, has not been judicially executed in our names.

[The following is from a report on the website of The Guardian:]

A spokesman for the Scottish justice secretary welcomed O'Brien's "thoughtful and considered contribution". He said: "The justice secretary … granted compassionate release to al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds alone, based on the rules and regulations of Scots law. And as the cardinal correctly observes, it is to the Scottish parliament and people that Holyrood ministers are accountable, not the US Senate."

32 comments:

  1. MISSION LOCKERBIE:

    Achtung, die 'SCCRC' Reappeal Dokumente sind für die schottische Justiciary noch eine aktive "Blindgänger Bombe" mit sehr hoher "explosions" Kraft !
    Welche Members of Parlament wagen es den "Blindgänger" zu entschärfen ?
    Vorsicht: Danach könnten offizielle Köpfe rollen ?

    computer translation in english:

    Attention, the 'SCCRC' Reappeal of documents are for the Scottish Justiciary a still active "Dud-Bomb" with very high "explosion" power !
    Which Member of Parliament this "DUD" dares to defuse ?
    Caution! Afterwards official heads could roll ?

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  2. Mission Lockerbie:

    Es scheint, dass sich der Secretary of Justice Kenny MacAskill, vor der Veröffentlichung der 'SCCRC' Dokumente fürchtet, wie der Teufel das Weihwasser...

    computer translation, german/english:

    It seems that itself the Secretary of Justice Kenny MacAskill, before the publikation of the 'SCCRC' documents Is afraid, how the devil before the dedicating water...

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  3. May I congratulate the cardinal. It is good to see some good in a churchman, unlike another one connected with Lockerbie who says there is "more than logic to Lockerbie".

    There isn't. There is a perfectly straightforward explanation, if only one to seek it out.

    Rolfe has an interesting comment from Vincent Cannistraro on the Randi forum, which says it is irrelevant if no-one can demonstrate a failure of the security system at Libya, hostile intelligence services (such as the one he believes Fhimah and Megrahi belonged to, they could have carried out the planting of the device nonetheless.

    I must warn Mr VC that Malta won substantial damages from Granada TV when it made unsupportable allegations about the security at Luqa Airport, and that if he repeats such allegations in a public forum, he is likely to be sued.

    It doesn't quite fit in with his more recent claims which has Iran commissioning the PFLP GC who the commission a bombing from Libya (who happen to use a PFLP GC type device.

    I must be very careful what I say next. But I am surprised that ex CIA agents (one at least is dead) don't face charges going well beyond those of faking evidence but include those of blowing up the Lockerbie plane themselves, with their Iranian "friends".

    There is no statute of limitations on murder in the UK courts.

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  4. We should become inured to the inevitable "point" from that notorious official Lockerbie booster Mr Frank Duggan. He may be a Catholic, but he misunderstands the meaning of the message in Matthew 22:21, which is a discourse on practical realpolitik, and not about the separation of church and state powers.

    I am quite sure that God was on the side of those who decided to send Mr Megrahi home.

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  5. MISSION LOCKERBIE,
    ask no political Attacks by the church:

    The Cardinal Keith O'Brien of Scotland's Roman Catholics sollte sich nur für WAHRHEIT und somit ausschliesslich für die sofortige Veröffentlichung der 'SCCRC' Dokumente einsetzen. Nicht Politik sondern dieser Akt entspräche den Roman Catholics...

    computer translation german/english:

    The Cardinal Keith O'Brien of Scotland's Roman Catholics
    should itself only for TRUTH and thus exclusive for the immediate publication of the ' SCCRC' Documents use. Not politics but this act would correspond the Roman Catholics...

    beautiful Sunday
    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  6. Sehr geehrter Herr Bollier

    Ich möchte verstehen, was Sie schreiben. Aber ich kann nicht.
    Die Botschaft kommt nicht gut übersetzen. Die Bedeutung verloren. Es ist verwirrend.
    Die automatische Übersetzung muss vor dem Senden der Nachricht überprüft werden.
    Sie können dies mit der automatischen Übersetzer tun. Nehmen Sie das Ergebnis aus der Übersetzer, die in Englisch ist. Nutzen Sie diese Nachricht. Übersetzen Sie ins Deutsche. Wenn es sinnvoll ist, dann senden. Wenn es nicht sinnvoll ist dann nicht senden! Bearbeiten Sie die ursprüngliche Nachricht, bis es Sinn macht. Dann senden Sie es.
    Wählen Sie einfache Sätze. Weil sie sinnvoll in beiden Sprachen.
    Ich benutzte diese Methode hier.
    Ich hoffe das hilft dir.
    In Zukunft werden wir alle Chinesisch sprechen!

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Blogiston

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  7. Frank Duggan's comment is incredibly offensive. He has disgraced the entire group he represents by behaving so badly.

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  8. OK, it is nice that the discussion has now gone to the question of which side God is on. It had to, sooner or later. Also, when the good Cardinal compares the US judicial to those of China, Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia, the subliminal message is: "You Americans are as good as the godless and the Muslims." Isn't it wonderful that this Catholic authority could list four examples without ever including one of his flock. Of course he would not dare mention Israel and its record on human rights. Yet, he asks others to direct their gaze inward! How much gaze directing does this man need to do to understand who was responsible for the godly conduct in Northern Ireland, among other places? Sorry, folks, but it is a whole lot more than sickening to have a catholic authority pontificate about the respect of humanity and human rights and use Islamic countries as his counter examples. I assure this misguided specimen that if there is any respect for human rights in his country, it would be precisely because of the (limited) success in keeping his likes out of the workings of the state. I think this catholic man's time would be better spent on finding a means of separating the men from the boys in his corrupt church before he lectures others on civility.

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  9. Charles, we should clarify your point about Vincent Cannistraro. The quote you refer to is from a TV documentary broadcast in about 1994, so well before the trial, even. I think you can tell that from the context.

    That was a BBC programme so it wasn't the one the damages action referred to, but it was about that time. Nowadays, of course, it's likely a similar action would fail, because quite beyond all reason (and with precisely no supporting evidence) the court decided exactly such a conspiracy had happened.

    I don't have the reference to the more recent claim you refer to, regarding Iran commissioning the PFLP-GC who then commissioned Libya. Sounds like another of his wild conspiracy theories. Presumably, however, he is still claiming the device was introduced by an unaccompanied suitcase on KM180. The only plane where we have solid evidence it wasn't introduced.

    Way to go, Vincent!

    Can you provide a reference for the Iran/PFLP-GC/Libya statement?

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  10. Dearie me Suliman. Remind me never to engage you as an interpreter. You have read into this statement things which simply are not there.

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  11. Suliman, your whole argument is predicated on something the Cardinal did not mention. He does not mention Islam or muslims. He mentions the human rights record of some countries including one which is certainly not Islamic. He asks America to consider it's own standards of justice as regards executing people before meddling in Scottish justice. If you take any other message from his comment (literally or subliminally) then you are mistaken.
    BTW - Don't start a religious thread...dragging religion into discussions tends to generate more heat than light.

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  12. I tend to agree that leaving religion and the Irish troubles out of Lockerbie discussions facilitates constructive debate!

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  13. I find the Cardinal's speech quite appalling.

    In light of all the evidence that Megrahi did not commit mass murder the Cardinal delivers his speech on the basis that he did.

    Instead of preaching forgiveness and attcking other countries' human rights records, why doesn't he look at his own where the trial of Megrahi resembled a trial of a banana republic. Why didn't he call for the UK government to set up a proper inquiry to halt the continuing abuse of the human rights of the victims' families ie Article 3, European Convention on Human Rights."No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

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  14. Ruth, I believe most of the Scottish Churches backed the release of Mr Megrahi last year. None of them as far as I know got involved in the sound-ness or otherwise of the trial and the verdict.

    I think the Cardinal has been quite brave today actually. his intervention will not go down well, for example, in opposition circles at Holyrood. They will be furious that he is "backing the Nationalists". That's how their narrow little minds work. In fact he hasn't, he has simply told the US that Scottish Affairs are none of their business. Watch out, however, for some sections of the Scottish media sniping because they will be smarting that this may have damaged Labour who, of course, have piled the blame on the SNP as much as the Americans and who have stayed deafeningly silent throughout this entire debacle. Labour's Richard Baker actually suggested MacAskill should go to America and explain himself!

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  15. Those of us who have some deep feelings about Lockerbie will recall that Juge Brugueiere (missing grave accent) was the man who detained the Eksund, transporting Libyan materiel to Northern Ireland.

    But NI is in Lockerbie terms as they said in all good military histories "only a sideshow".

    MI5 is Libya's enemy, in a way MI6 is not. The CIA turned a blind eye to terrorism in the UK about violent Irish republicanism until terror from a different quarter was directed at the so-called US Homeland.

    Then republican terror virtually disappeared and we had the Good Friday agreement. A new generation of those who feel themselves dispossessed in Northern Ireland are turning to tried and tested remedies again, but without it seems Libyan backing.

    Crude comments on the cardinal's intervention may be dismissed, and there is a strong strain of "anti-popery" in the American tradition.

    So please do not blog on this of all websites from crude national/religious/political positions. They are quickly discerned and equally quickly dismissed.

    As somebody who is as unreligious as it is possible to be I may have failed to put my views quite as crudely as some
    would have wished.

    But as someone, who though devoid of religion, likes the sound of the KJV Bible, plainchant, church bell ringing in the English style, and a generalised humanistic view of religion, perhaps I committed myself too far.

    No God then, from now on!

    I'm sorry Caustic that I could not date VC's contribution, but if it were 1994, then it was in the lean years long before the trial or the promise of a trial, and may well have pre-dated Professor Black's call for what became the Zeist process, which was so hesitantly accepeted at first and then became the only game in town but of the CIA/FBI/DoJ/Crown's terms alone.

    I necer could understand why a jury trial was not possible.

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  16. Jo G,
    You've totally failed to address the main point in my comment that the Scottish judiciary system acted corruptly and for the Cardinal to critise any other country is absurd.

    Here's my comment again if you would like to try another response.


    'I find the Cardinal's speech quite appalling.

    In light of all the evidence that Megrahi did not commit mass murder the Cardinal delivers his speech on the basis that he did.

    Instead of preaching forgiveness and attcking other countries' human rights records, why doesn't he look at his own where the trial of Megrahi resembled a trial of a banana republic. Why didn't he call for the UK government to set up a proper inquiry to halt the continuing abuse of the human rights of the victims' families ie Article 3, European Convention on Human Rights."No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

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  17. Ruth

    If you didn't like the answer I'm sorry but it is the only one I'm going to give you.

    But just to clarify, I know the Judiciary in Scotland has essentially behaved corruptly over Megrahi but that hasn't stopped me from criticising the US over its recent conduct, or indeed, its conduct on other occasions.

    So thanks for the second try but as far as I'm aware we're here to say what we think not to pass tests in pleasing those reading us.

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  18. First of all, those who want religion to be kept out should direct their requests at other authorities. After all, I did not inject religion into the discussion, I was reacting to comments made by (1) a religious authority who is (2) claiming moral superiority and attacking the ethics of another country. You don't like the injection of religion? Good, you can ask Prof. Black to refrain from injecting it, and it might also help if you can get the cardinal to keep his comments to his own flock. But, if Prof. Black puts it here, then it is fair game for me to comment on it. Those who are hurt by turning a spotlight on the moral corruption of their neck of the woods should stay indoors. In the public arena, no amount of holier-than-thou cover is gonna protect them. Also, the cover of "deep care" is well known to many Libyans to be as deep as Gaddafi's pockets. People speak as though the only victims of Lockerbie are those from the northern hemisphere, that the only Libyans who were impacted by Lockerbie are those who hold the purse. And they do all of this in the context of showing off their morals. Yeah, tell me about those morals that justify taking payment from a thief.

    I don't know where the cardinal gets his data, he might have "unconventional" sources. According to information on a relevant Wikipedia page, the US does indeed rank after Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia in the absolute number of judicial executions in 2009. However, that page says the number is UNKNOWN for China, but the cardinal's (unknown) sources generously placed China above the US. UNKNOWN to me means it could be higher or lower, but the good cardinal's construct could not reaped any benefit from a China that placed lower than the US. How convenient! When Scotland's justice minister says the cardinal's comments well considered and thoughtful, he is absolutely correct. It also suited the purpose of this godly man to base his comparisons on absolute numbers, not on any sort of normalized numbers. If he normalized the numbers, the US could be too distant from the top of the list, and he might then have to rely completely on "his" numbers for China. Yes, the cardinal's base for comparison was contrived, not at all objective. And yes, his objective is nothing other than to shame the US by (a contrived) association with the "godless" and the "heathens." Whoever does not like that conclusion is free to disagree, as far as I am concerned, but attempts to silence others with more moralistic grandstanding are unlikely to be productive.

    The Wikipedia page says the UK abolished capital punishment only in 1998, which is hardly the length of time that would qualify as a tradition, or otherwise be construed as an element of "culture." In the UK capital punishment was not abolished completely until ten years after Lockerbie, in fact, which is a full seven years after Megrahi's indictment. With my limited knowledge I'd say it is therefore conceivable that Megrahi could have been subject to capital punishment if he'd stood for trial before 1998. Again, I don't claim to know the legal details, but I certainly know enough to say the good cardinal got no leg, maybe a little stump, but no leg to stand on. His other stump, representative of his Catholic traditions, is even shorter because that church has not yet completely outlawed capital punishment. With that view, I say: please, spare us the holier-than-thou nonsense, or at least reserve it for your own private clubs.

    A note to Jo G: I can't tell whether you need help with interpreting because I am not sure your I/O processes are reliable. Aren't you the one who got all fired up about being--SARCASTICALLY--labeled "Islamist"? And you distanced yourself from that imagined slur by declaring the "US is the biggest terrorist on the planet." Precious!

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  19. In the UK capital punishment was not abolished completely until ten years after Lockerbie, in fact, which is a full seven years after Megrahi's indictment. With my limited knowledge I'd say it is therefore conceivable that Megrahi could have been subject to capital punishment if he'd stood for trial before 1998.

    No. Capital punishment for murder was abolished long before that (1969, I think). It remained on the statute book as a curiosity, for treason (and, I believe, raping the Princess Royal!).

    There was no possibility of Megrahi (or indeed anyone else) being executed in 1989.

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  20. Suliman.

    The death penalty for murder was abolished in 1965.

    It was abolished for treason in 1998.

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  21. Furthermore Suliman, your hysterics because a churchman commented on this issue are difficult to understand as are your rather aggressive attacks on others posting here. I am not being remotely "precious" in my responses to you. You read into comments by O'Brien things he did not even say. His main attack was on the death penalty which America retains along with certain other countries. I suppose he could have thrown in other snippets, like Guantanomo Bay being used to hold, without trial, "illegal combatants" (they called them that rather than Prisoners of War because POWs have human rights) for as long as they liked and also tortured them. Ok, is the US closing in on China now do you think?

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  22. Dear Mr Suliman,

    You show the conventional callousness of your kind the Us blogger on this site.

    You believe that Mr Megrahi is guilty and he was convicted by a valid court process. One that did not have a jury for heavens' sake. The case against the Libyan 2, whom some believe still to be guilty, though he was clearly found not guilty, as the finding of "not proven" was possible.

    But, here in the UK many even those involved in Lockerbie know that the process was a farce and virtually all the clus produced in court, for lack of a better word perjured.

    No US commentators unless they like us here have come to conclusion that the case against Mr Megrahi was fabricated care to deal with the errors in the evidence and simply "hand wave" and say he was found guilty by a judicial bench if they are well informed) or a jury, (if they are not).

    But they never address the problems with the evidence, because it is actually unsupportable.

    I know I go further than some commentators and say if the CIA corrupted the evidence (which has been demonstrated), and say that this shows a criminality by the US government. I shall also include the Iranian one, who essential revived the Iran-contra alliance to give Iran its much desired (publicly as late as 18 December 1988) revenge for IR-655.

    Mr Suliman will ignore me. It is better not to get in conflict with "conspiracy theorists".

    But there would be no such gentlemen unless there were conspiracies.

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  23. If Mr Megrahi and Mr Fhimah had been abducted to the US, which was very much on the cards for the US authorities, they would have been killed.

    Mr Megrahi owes his life to having been jailed in Scotland!

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  24. Visit the Daily Beast if you want a proper argument - their contributors are allowed guns. The associated straw poll voted 92% in favour of getting Megrahi back to jail, and I think they mean a Texas death cell not HMP Greenock with 42" plasma tv showing the Al Jazeera news channel.

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  25. Rolfe: As I said re abolishing capital punishment in the UK, my knowledge is limited, but it did remain on the books until 1998, and it was not just for treason. There was also something called "piracy with violence," which remained eligible until 1998. Whether bombing a plane could qualify as piracy with violence, I can't say either way.

    Charles: You are convinced that I "believe" this and that about Megrahi's guilt! What gave you that belief, exactly? I'll tell you: It is because anyone who argues against you and your camp, on any level whatsoever, must be a subscriber to the one and only other camp, the US. Since I don't agree with some points being made by you and others, then I must be one of them, the gun-wielding, ass-kicking Americans, right? You only confirm what I said already, that you see the world as you and the Americans, and no one else has any right to an independent opinion. I think that is called prejudice, not conspiracy theory.

    Jo G: Here is some I/O advice for you. Try to read everything at least half as many times as you reply to it. Then we might actually be on the same page.

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  26. Suliman, I suggest you take your own advice and read what churchmen are saying before launching ill-tempered rants at everyone else.

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  27. The verdict of crowds should surely not be used in the matter of criminal justice, or is public opinion used to convict in the US courts?

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  28. Visit the Daily Beast if you want a proper argument - their contributors are allowed guns. The associated straw poll voted 92% in favour of getting Megrahi back to jail, and I think they mean a Texas death cell not HMP Greenock with 42" plasma tv showing the Al Jazeera news channel.
    That HMP Greenock...plasma tv, etc. paid for by the Libyan government. If they paid for that, along with other posh accommodations for Megrahi, his medical, etc. why would they not have paid for him to get chemo in an alternative (to prison) location in Scotland, per the UN agreement prior to trial, rather than transferring him back to Libya?

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  29. Prejudice or conspiracy theory Mr Suliman, I think you hsve joined a crap game bigger than your pocket.

    I happen to have worked out what happened at Lockerbie, and the crime is a foul one. Your government is up to the neck in it, but si is the Iranian.

    Everybody, the Brits, the SD, the rest of the US government and even the CIA were delighted when the Scots got them off the hook and sent Mr Megrahi home on compassionate. For they knew the prosecution case could not urvive a second appeal.

    Gadafy and Mr M knew he didn't do it. But why should they co-operate with the games that might be played. Libya had been screwed by the Americans who stole $2.7B and jailed one of their citizens.

    The Scottish police conveniently said that sending Mr M to a hospice would be a security issue, though he seems to have been a model prisoner.

    So Macaskill did the honours and released M on compassionate. The SD, CIA, rest of US government and MI5, were delighted.

    They don't want to face up to what comes out of a third wash in the Megrhi laundry and its not nice, Libya decided to use its advantage and not play ball with further angl-American machinations.

    London was delighted that the PTA did not have to be used, and the very existence of the PTA means Straw and Blair know that M was fixed up.

    The SD made polite complsint and only the dim, backward, and unthinking stock theatre of Congress and Mr Duggan were at all upset, and whn push comes to shove Congress does not count much for things in the US polity. It is a roll on your back and be tickled pussy-cat.

    I don't really know what your so called points are Mr Suliman, but if you don't like truth, find somewhere else to blog. creationist blog perhaps?

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  30. That HMP Greenock...plasma tv, etc. paid for by the Libyan government. If they paid for that, along with other posh accommodations for Megrahi, his medical, etc. why would they not have paid for him to get chemo in an alternative (to prison) location in Scotland, per the UN agreement prior to trial, rather than transferring him back to Libya?

    Why should they? They wanted him returned to Libya. It wasn't in their interest to make generous offers to facilitate the process of not returning him to Libya.

    My own opinion is that Kenny wanted that appeal dropped. Or at the very least, was acting under instructions from Eilish Angiolini, who wanted the appeal dropped (Prof. Black's take on it). If Megrahi's illness and the compassionate release process (or some conflation of compassionate release with Prisoner Transfer) was going to be used to lean on him in that respect, then he couldn't afford to wait too much longer. The appeal was due back in court in early November 2009.

    If there was any bias in choosing the poor prognosis in preference to a more optimistic assessment, I think that's where it comes in. And since Megrahi quite obviously wasn't going to drop the appeal unless he was actually returned to Libya, then keeping him "in the community" in Scotland wouldn't have cut it.

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  31. By the way, Charles, you're currently on course for a landslide win in the current Stundies poll, beating your previous equal first. Congratulations.

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  32. Quite right Rolfe. The Scots also wanted to protect the shabby face of Scottish justice and shown at Zeist. But the real beneficiaries from the return of Mr Megrahi were the US Government and to a lesser extent the UK one.

    Prolonging Mr M's stay in Scotland was in no one's interest save for the relatives of a few ungenerous and ungrateful US relatives, too lazy to look at the appalling fakery, perjury and errors at the Zeist court. Those who really know the score such as Mr Duggan, Mr Marquise, Mr Henderson and the Seretary of State simply do not want to address these issues. They must be ignored and treated with contempt.

    For instance Mr Marquise is reduced to mouthing "read my lips" when ever challenged on a lie or a falsity.

    In the long run it won't work. the truth is essentially out.

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