Friday 30 October 2009

Lockerbie extradition suggestion ‘was utter nonsense’

[This is the headline over a report in today's edition of The Herald. It reads as follows:]

The leading expert on the Lockerbie trial has accused the US ambassador to Britain of talking “utter nonsense” by saying America could have sought extradition of those involved in the bombing.

Robert Black, the professor who was instrumental in enabling the Lockerbie trial to be held at Camp Zeist in Holland, ridiculed the whole idea of extradition.

US Ambassador Louis B Susman said the release of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi strained relations between the US and Scotland but caused no lasting damage.

He told BBC Scotland: “We never anticipated his release. I think if we ever thought we had a release, we probably would have asked for extradition early on.”

He added: “Good friends disagree. I compare it sometimes to a marriage.”

Mr Susman was speaking during his first official visit to Scotland. Mr Salmond hosted a reception where the ambassador launched an exchange programme to strengthen links between the countries.

Professor Black said: “If the ambassador is talking about the period before Zeist, the US did ask Libya to extradite Megrahi and Fhimah, but there was no extradition treaty between the US and Libya and never the slightest possi-bility that extradition would be effected voluntarily.”

If the ambassador was referring to the period after Megrahi’s conviction, his comment was “utter nonsense” because none of the diplomacy would have worked.

[The last sentence does not accurately reflect what I said. As I pointed out on this blog yesterday, if extradition had been sought after Mr Megrahi was convicted the application would have been summarily dismissed by the Scottish courts because there was no warrant for it in the legislation governing extradition.

The report on the issue in The Times contains the following:

'Mr Susman said in a television interview: “We never anticipated his release. If we had thought he would be released we would have asked for extradition early on.” (...)

'However, Mr Susman’s view was challenged last night by Scottish legal experts and politicians who pointed out that although many of the Lockerbie victims were American citizens, the crime had taken place over Scottish soil, and therefore al-Megrahi could not have stood trial in the US. [RB: The aircraft was registered in the United States and 189 of those who died were US citizens. There was accordingly never any legal doubt that the accused could have been tried in the United States. The problem was that there was no US-Libya extradition treaty and never the remotest chance that the suspects would be handed over voluntarily into US hands.]

'Given the poor relations between Colonel Gaddafi’s regime and the US Government at the time, there was never any chance, they said, that the Libyans would have allowed al-Megrahi to be tried in the US. They also pointed out that the international agreement that allowed al-Megrahi’s trial to go ahead in the Netherlands stipulated that any sentence handed down by the Scottish court would be served in Scotland.

'However, they added that Mr Susman’s comments may reflect the continuing anger felt in Washington and among victims’ relatives who say that they were repeatedly promised by the British Government that al-Megrahi would serve out his sentence in Scotland.

'Scottish opposition parties that opposed the release criticised Mr Susman’s views. The Scottish Tories said that while the decision to release al-Megrahi was “profoundly wrong”, it was a matter for Scotland. The Liberal Democrats agreed, saying: “Given that one of the fundamental principles of Scots law is that somebody cannot be tried for the same crime twice, it’s difficult to see what case the US Government could have put for extradition.”'

The report in The Scotsman contains the following:

'"We never anticipated his release," said Mr Susman. "I think if we ever thought we had a release, we probably would have asked for extradition early on." (...)

'But Professor Robert Black, who was one of the architects of the Camp Zeist agreement which saw Megrahi handed over by the Libyans for trial in 2000, described the comments as "utter rubbish".

'"The Americans know that Libya would never have handed over Mr Megrahi for trial in America," he said. (...)

'Susan Cohen, an American whose daughter was killed in the attack, said: "I always thought we should have gone for extradition. Events proved me right."'

RB: After the announcement in Scotland and in the United States in November 1991 that charges had been brought against Megrahi and Fhimah, both countries sought the extradition of the suspects through diplomatic channels. The US did, in Susan Cohen's words, "go for extradition". These attempts, however, failed. That was precisely the reason for the moves, in which I played a part, to set up a Scottish non-jury court in the Netherlands which might induce the suspects to surrender voluntarily for trial.]

19 comments:

  1. MISSION LOCKERBIE, that is a computers translation of Babylon, German in English:

    Call to all anonymous persons on this venerable Bloc of Professor Robert Black...

    Why do you have to cover yourselves for such responsible questions and answers (270 victims) with an alias? If you want to make your representation public without perfide intentions, then you call please "Horse and Name" !

    "Newspaper hoax" from steered mainstream media, are not proofs! Adhere to facts, which can be proven or counterproven materially or by reliable documents!

    MEBO works for 18 years on the discharge proofs for Libya and its official Mr. Abdelbaset Al-Megrahi, with the today's result that Libya and Mr. Megrahi cannot to brought in connection with the Lockerbie- Tragedy

    The fact that in all probability, which was the Scottish court decision a Miscarriage of Justice, supported by the persistent refusal of a new UN Investigation by Prime Minister Gordon Brown UK, First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond and other one...

    Notices you for those it applies: If someone manipulated evidence, if somebody didn't invesitgate something that should have been investigated, if somebody twisted it to fit up up Megrahi, or Fimah or Libya, then that person will go to jail. I mean that sincerely, that person should be prosecuted for that! Gesprochen von FBI Task Force chief Richard Marquise...

    Richard Marquise answered also to Gideon Levy's question G. L.: Would you have a case if you wouldn't have these evidence (MST-13 timer)?
    R.M.: Would we have a case. I don't think we would ever had an indictment. And he said also: G.L.: And was there paid any money after he trial? R.M.: I'm not gonna answer that.

    by Edwin and Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  2. The ambassador said: "We never anticipated" Mr. Megrahis release. Never? I remember some American intimidation exercises ahead of the decision. But if the embassy staff ("we") really did not anticipate the release you should reconsider your job.

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  3. MISSION LOCKERBIE, that is a computers translation of Babylon, German in English:

    A convincing of fraud study of the PT-35 (MST-13 timer fragment) for the last "Non-Believers".

    The confrontation between the regular chronology (1989 to 2000) of the MST-13 timer cirquit board (prototype) up to, allegedly in Lockerbie found, PT-35 (MST-13) Circuit board and > > >
    the falsified and manipulated chronology (1989 to 2000) of the PT-35 (MST-13) Circuit board, from experts Tom Thurman (FBI), USA, Dr. Thomas Heyes and Allen Feraday, both of (RARDE) U.K., is in work and publishes soon.

    °°°

    Eine überzeugende Betrugs Studie über das PT-35 (MST-13 Timerfragment) für die letzten "Ungläubigen".

    Die Konfrontation zwischen der regulären Chronologie (1989 bis 2000) des MST-13 Timer Cirquit Board (Prototype) bis zum, angeblich in Lockerbie aufgefundenen, PT-35 (MST-13) Circuit Board und >>>
    der gefälschten und manipulierten Chronologie (1989 bis 2000) des PT-35 (MST-13) Circuit Board, der Experten Tom Thurman (FBI), USA, Dr. Thomas Heyes und Allen Feraday, beide von (RARDE) UK, ist in Arbeit und wird demnächst publiziert.

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  4. Mr. Bollier, instead of repeating yourself time and time again you could please answer another simple question: What was the difference between your MST-13 timers and the Olympus timers? (Differences in size, function, design ... a reference to a photo of the Olympus timers would be welcome)

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  5. Mission Lockerbie, attn. Adam:

    The difference is the time programme by MST-13 Timer, mechanical switch, program only for minutes or hours, 1- 99999 minutes or hours, 7.4V battery.

    Olympus timers:
    It is a electronic Timer about 5x10x 1 cm, 12 hour with AM/PM, Display window 2x4cm, indicator Display: Mo--Tue--Wed--Thu--Fri--Sat--Son, time indicator: digital in numbers, prog.on/off.

    Program minutes, hours, days, maximum 7 days, on/off relay, Battery AA-1.5V, switch for program on/off

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  6. MISSION LOCKERBIE, attn. Adam:

    I'm sorry, I did not see the question.
    In the document under national Security it concerns the Improvised Explosive Devices (IED), thus can be accepted that the timer question is integrated.
    My information source is very reliable. There is after newest realizations even the possibility that the document of two states was signed and an opening is retarded or by it not possible ! That it would threaten the state security of UK is a further obstacle…

    Lord Advocate Elish Angiolini QC agreed on the 20th of February 2008 to open the secret document but the UK Government by Advocate General Lord Davidson, QC, - Westminster's representative in Scottish matters - refused so and argued that it was not in the public interest to release the secret document. He claimed higher national interests: "The national security was at stake"!!!

    Prosecuting counsel Ronnie Clancy added that the secret document did not originate from the USA or one of ist agencies as the CIA.

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  7. Dear Mr. Bollier, thank you for your answers so far!
    1. does that mean that an olympus timer - technically seen - could have been chosen for the Lockerbie bomb?
    2. a 7.4 Volt battery - what is that? How do you produce 7.4 Volt in a Toshiba Bombeat?
    3. Would it not be easier to programme an Olympus timer to blow up an airplane at a certain scheduled time than to use a MST-13 timer?
    4. Do you know why your Libyan counterparts rejected the Olympus timers - leaving the price question aside. Why did they prefer your timer and for what purpose?

    ReplyDelete
  8. MISSION LOCKERBIE, attn. Adam:
    my answer of your question:

    4. The Military Procurement was in posession of such Olympus Timer, the reject was about the price.

    1, All timers, electronic, mechanical and chemical can activate explosives, in connection with a fuse. 1987, about 15 different electronical timer was on the world market.

    2. That is a compact battery (7,4 V) used in Polaroid Photokameras, an ideal size, for our MST-13 Timers, and has not anything to do with Toshiba radio.

    3. Lake question 1., no difference.

    4. The military procurement office was in the possession of Olympus timer, from Germany, it wanted MST-13 timer to have, our price for Olympus timer was too high. Application is not well-known,

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  9. Thank you, Mr. Bollier, so far.
    5. Do you know - and of course this is a hypothecial or theoretical question - whether the detonator in an IED of the sort that was presented by the Crown in the Lockerbie case would need another power supply or could use the same battery power as the timer?
    6. As far as I understand, the Libyans needed the MST-13 timers for military actions in dusty desert war surroundings. For such purposes the MST-timers were robust and efficient, though not as electronically sophisticated as fx Olympus timers. Do you agree?
    7. Is it right that the MST timers which were found in Togo and Senegal had no connection to any sophisticated bomb but came along with bundles of weapons like Kalashnikows and handgrenades and Semtex portions as used in civil wars?
    8. Do you agree (again hypothetical) that if anybody in those days would want to blow up an airplane by an IED of the mentioned radio cassette type a MST-13 timer would by far not be his first choice?

    ReplyDelete
  10. MISSION LOCKERBIE, attn. Adam:

    Dear Mr. Adam their questions are interesting, but for me to answer in English language too complicated. I hope, you can translate it in english.

    5. Das Beweisstück im Lockerbie Prozess PT-35 (MST-13) Timerfragment wurde aus einem leeren, nicht betriebsbereiten Circuit Board (Prototype) fabriziert, somit erübrigt sich die Frage im Zusammenhang mit dem Batterie Power.
    Mit einem funktionierenden MST -13 Timer, kann man auf zwei Arten arbeiten: 1. den Zünder, aktivieren mit der eigenen Timer Battery, 7.4V, vorausgesetzt die Spannung reicht für den Zünder Type. 2. Der MST-13 Ttimer konnte umgeschaltet werden, dass am Relai- Ausgang keine Batterie-Spannung anliegt, sondern nur eine EIN oder AUS Funktion. Mit dieser Funktion würde man einem zusätzlichen Stromkreis ausserhalb des Timers brauchen, zum Beispiel: In Serie des Stromkreises eine zusätzliche Batterie um den Zünder zu aktivieren.

    6. Die 40 Stück MEBO Olympus Timer waren ebenfalls in stabielen Gehäusen eingebaut gewesen und waren für Militäreinsätze ebenfalls geeignet.

    7. Für die MS-13 Timer und Sprengstoffe, welche in Togo und Senegal beim Militär-Lager von US- Offiziellen in Besitz genommen wurden, habe ich keine Informationen, ausser dass die CIA und *FBI Experte Tom Thurman, zwischen Oktober 1989 und *6. Juni 1990 im Besitze, von mindestens 1-2 Stück MST-13 Timer, bezugsweise Fotos und Unterlagen und Semtex Sprengstoff waren.

    8. Aus "hypothetical" Antworten entstehen Gerüchte, ich spreche nur über sachliche Tatsachen, sorry.

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd.,Switzerland

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  11. correction: by Tom Thurman: *6th of June 1989
    Ed. Bollier

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  12. Question 6a:
    I understood from the trial transcripts that the casings for the Olympus timers were no original Olympus casings and that it was at the MEBO premises that the timers were put into casings. Right or wrong?

    ReplyDelete
  13. attn. Adam: Right

    The Olympus timer was built by MEBO, (for Libya) into sturdy housings and developed during the return to Switzerland, for the customs clearance at Airport Zurich.
    °°°
    Die Olympus Timer wurden von MEBO, für Libyen, in stabile Gehäuse eingebaut und während der Rückkehr in die Schweiz, für die Zolldekleration, ausgebaut.

    by Ed. Bollier, MEBO Ltd

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  14. Question 6b: I understand that you offered the Olympus timers in casings to your Libyan counterparts because they wanted timers in casings under all circumstances.
    According to the Crown the alleged bomb in a Toshiba radio recorder was equipped with a MST-timer without casings because a casing would not fit.
    Congratulations, Mr. Bollier!

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  15. Correction: of course "without a casing"!

    ReplyDelete
  16. MISSION LOCKERBIE:

    Alias: Nennt mich einfach Adam; Causitic Logic; Lu.; Mi; und weitere alias, können schon längst zugeordnet werden... South Africa lets greet...

    Betrifft: October 27, 2009 "Months" with the claims, "Real Thing" pt.two,
    Thurman and PT-35 (b), on your webpage Adam Larson/Caustic Logie.

    Es ist interessant, dass seit Sonntag, den 1. Oktober, 2009, die MEBO Abbildung, IMAGE, prod. U/7946, aus Ihrer Webpage verschwunden ist, dies nach unsere Diskussion über die MST-13 Timer Angelegenheit.
    Das weist darauf hin, dass ich zweifelsfrei richtig liege, die Ungereimtheiten in Sachen Timerfragment PT-35 aufgedeckt zu haben.

    Wie Sie selber auf Ihrer Webpage publizieren zeigt es sich, dass ex FBI Task Force Chief Richard Marquise, Detective Chief Superintendent Stuart Henderson und FBI Experte Tom Thurman, allesamt nach den Fragen von Gideon Levy, im Dokumentar-Film "Lockerbie Revisited" hartnäckig lügen !!!

    Im weiteren liegen Sie falsch oder wollen absichtlich den Werdegang des PT-35, zu Gunsten Tom Thurman verändern!

    Nachdem Sie wissen, dass das PT-35 (MST-13) original Fragment (Prototyp Circuit Board, Farbe braun) mit dem Merkmal "M", am 27, April 1990, bei Fa. Siemens in zwei Teile, No. 353, (PT-35(a) mit "M", und No. 419, (DP-31(a) zersägt wurde, versuchen Sie darzustellen, dass FBI Experte Tom Thurman, das Timer-Fragment am 15. Juni 1990, original in zwei Teilen, in Washington als, No. 353, (PT-35(a) und No. 419, (DP-31(a) begutachtet hatte!
    Dies entspricht nicht der Wahrheit! Tom Thurman hatte das original Fragment PT-35, als ganzes Fragment wedernoch als geteiltes Fragment in den USA gesehen oder geprüft. Thurman hatte am 11. Juni 1990, das erste Mal von Officer (SIO) Stuart Henderson eine RARDE- Foto des PT-35, Timerfragment mit "M" bekommen und konnte angeblich nach zwei Tagen das Fragment einem MST-13 Timer zuteilen, (hi).
    Tatsache ist, dass Thurman bereits seit dem 6. Juni 1989, einen kompletten MST-13 Timer, (aus Libya, bezugsweise, aus Togo), gesehen hatte und ihm somit der MST-13 Timer bekannt war!

    Zwischen Mai und September 1990 wurde aus einem leeren Thüring PC-Board, (nicht betriebsbereiten Circuit Board), Farbe grün, ohne "M", siehe, IMAGE, prod. U/7946, ein Duplikat PT-35B, (MST-13) Fragment produziert (siehe ähnliche Beschädigungen bereits vor der Anfertigung auf dem Lötstützpunkt 1. Auch dieses Duplikat Fragment mit gleichem Design, wurde im beisein von bekannten Offizieren, in zwei Teile zersägt, PT-35(b) und DP-31(b).
    Aus dem grünen Duplikat Teilstück, wurde PT-35(b) ohne "M", und dem original Teilstück, DP-31(a), das neue "PT-35 B" Fragment, als "Patchwork"zusammengestellt.
    Ab 15. November 1990 wurde bei Polizei-Befragungen nur mit diesem Bild "PT-35B" verhandelt !
    Bei meiner Begutachtung der MST-13 Fragment Teile und Fotos am, 13.-16. September 1999, in Dumfries, konnte ich klar prüfen, dass das grüne Teilstück PT-35(b) ohne Buchstabe "M" war und nicht von einem betriebsbereiten MST-13 abstammte!
    Das zweite Teilfragment DP-31(a), war eindeutig vom ehemaligen braunen original Fragment PT-35! (verglichen wurde die original Brandstelle auf dem PT-31(a) mit der Brandstelle, der RARDE Abbildung, PI-995) siehe Polizei-Rapport Dumfries UK vom 16. Sept.1999.

    Im Zeugenstand, am Gericht in Kamp van Zeist, hatte das Fragment
    PT-35(b) eine grüne Farbe, ohne "M", das zweite Fragment PT-31(a) wurde seit meiner Begutachtung in Zeist total verbrannt, die Farbe konnte nicht mehr bestimmt werden!

    Nochmals zur Orientierung:
    1.) PT-35 original = MST-13 Timer Fragment mit "M", Fabe braun.
    2.) Nach Siemens: zwei Teile, No. 353= PT-35(a), No. 419= DP-31(a).
    3.) Duplikat PT-35B, Farbe grün, ohne "M", später ebenfalls geteilt in zwei Teile: PT-35(b) und PT-31(b).
    4.) PT-35B, Patchwork, gebaut aus PT-35(b), Farbe grün, ohne "M" und
    dem original DP-31(a), mit "M", Farbe braun.

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  17. MISSION LOCKERBIE, that is a computers translation of Babylon, German in English:

    Please are not blind, the dress fragments from Malta's "Mary's House", the MST-13 timer fragment (PT-35), the Toshiba Radio-Fragment, AG-145 (on the finger) and 3 police Labels and others, were preparatory, and after the crash of PanAm 103, from certain persons, placed at select place for to find!
    For a conspiracy against Libya, ALL crucial proofs were manipulated !!!
    It can to be hoped that the lies and the manipulated proofs lead soon to the names of the originators ...

    °°°
    Seid nicht blind, die Kleider-Fragmente von Boutique "Mary's House" in Malta, das MST-13 Timerfragment (PT-35), das Toshiba Radio-Fragment, AG-145 (gezeigt auf einem Finger) 3 Polizei-Labels und anderes Material, wurden zuvor präpariert und nach dem Absturz der Boeing 747, der PanAm 103, an gezielte Orte hingelegt, wo sie von speziellen Personen aufgefunden wurden. Das massgebende Beweismaterial, welches Libyen mit der "Lockerbie-Tragödie" in Verbindung bringen sollte war manipuliert oder gefälscht !!!
    Es besteht grosse Hoffnung, dass die Lügen und Manipulationen demnächst zu den verantwortlichen Personen führen...

    by Edwin Bollier, MEBO Ltd., Switzerland

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  18. MISSION LOCKERBIE,
    correction, Alias:

    Correction:
    of course, DP-31(a) "without "M"!

    Ed. Bollier, MEBO Ltd

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  19. MEBO correction:

    The battery of the MST-13 timer was a Duracell with 6 V.
    7,4 V is wrong!

    Ed. Bollier, MEBO Ltd.

    ReplyDelete